From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.ient.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #92 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, July 12 2001 Volume 04 : Number 092 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Some Thunder Rebels Conversions [RQ-RULES] Re: Some Thunder Rebels Conversions [RQ-RULES] Attacks of Opportunity ? RE: [RQ-RULES] Attack, Parry & tactics [RQ-RULES] RE: Game design issues - Free INT Re: [RQ-RULES] Some Thunder Rebels Conversions [RQ-RULES] RE: Game design issues - Free INT Re: [RQ-RULES] Attack, Parry & tactics RE: [RQ-RULES] Some Thunder Rebels Conversions RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:07:12 +0200 (CEST) From: Emmanuel Ponette Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Some Thunder Rebels Conversions Hi, This make me think of something. Is there an place where I could find a way to (more or less) convert a HW character to a standard RQ character? Most of the zine in the market now give the NPC in HW format and I don't have the rule, therefore I dont have a clue to what they can do and how powerful they are. I could create them from scratch but I need at least some hints. Thanks Manu - ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through Tiscalinet Webmail (http://webmail.tiscali.be) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:28:44 +0200 From: Alexandre Lanciani Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Some Thunder Rebels Conversions Il giorno 11-07-2001 17:07, Emmanuel Ponette, epon0608@freebel.net ha scritto: > Hi, > > This make me think of something. Is there an place where I could find a way to > (more or less) convert a HW character to a standard RQ character? Most of the > zine in the market now give the NPC in HW format and I don't have the rule, > therefore I dont have a clue to what they can do and how powerful they are. I > could create them from scratch but I need at least some hints. > > Thanks You can download the character creation rules and a synopsis of the mechanics from glorantha.com, just to have an understanding of HW's basics. HW characters are described in a very narrative, almost freeform fashion, so there should be no problem in converting them to RQ. It's as if you have a very clear picture of how the character should be, and just try to express it in RQ terms. But avoid mechanical conversions such as 5w=80% or whatever. The last issue of Tradetalk contains a scenario with stats for both systems, you could check it out. Hope that helps. Ah, one last thing: don't forget to add a few MPs storage devices to important NPCs! ;) - -- Regards, Alexandre. "What came first, the idea or the perception of the idea?" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:43:16 +0100 From: RAMEAU Alain Subject: [RQ-RULES] Attacks of Opportunity ? In his Vanganthi Fighting Style adpatation to RQ, Nick mentions attacks of opportuny and refers to RQ rules. While Attacks of Opportunity are now a major concept in DnD3 system combat, I don't remember this notion in RQ. Can someone refresh my memory ? Alain. P.S. This list has dramatically increased in intensity over the last few weeks ! It was so quiet before... ____________________________________________________ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:45:14 +0100 From: "Nikk Effingham" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Some Thunder Rebels Conversions Vanganthi Fighting Style (New Skill) Agility Base 00% This skill is a cult secret of the Vanganth cult. It can only be used by cultists under the effect of the Flight rune spell. The cultist learns to sweep in very fast and attack an opponent from above, preventing them from getting any return attack. When attacking normally like this, the flying attacker would swoop down, attack and the defender would receive an attack of opportunity (see RuneQuest combat section). However, if the attack roll is under Vanganthi Fighting Style skill the attacker can make an attack, and the defender will not receive an attack of opportunity. If you use riposte rules, the attacker is still entitled to such an attack. For every point of ENC the character has, this skill is reduced by one percentile (just as with Dodge etc...). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:19:05 -0000 From: simonh@msi-uk.com Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Attack, Parry & tactics I realy don't see how Mr Oakeshott's comments make any difference to RQ. In RQ if your opponent doesn't have a shield, the chances are your parrying weapon is going to take a beating. Every time the attackign damage exceeds your weapon's AP it loses one AP. An acctual attack against the weapon degrades it even faster. In my experience, these rules are often under-utilised by many groups. The references to parrying, even where it was unstated, I think from context were clearly talking about parrying with a sword. There may be a case for questioning RQ's treatment of shields, on the basis that a large shield is a fairly static physical barrier. On the other hand, shield parry skill can be seen as a more general battle manoeuvering skill, preventing your opponent from manoeuvering round your flanks, or whatever. I think the game's ballance at the moment is good enough for me not to worry about it too much. On the under-utilisation of rules front, I was lucky enough to play in a number of games with some very creative players in my early experiences with RQ. Since then I've joined several games with other and often find very sub-optimal use of magic and combat tactics. Attacking the weapons is one example of a tactic that has given me a considerable 'surprise' advantage from time to time. That club wielding great troll looks a lot less threatening when his club has been whittled down to a stump. On the other hand, one group I joined had worked out some very effective missile weapon tactics using lightwall and multimissile. Does anyone else have any experiences of comign across different tactical regimes in different groups like this? Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:29:16 -0400 From: Robert Stancliff Subject: [RQ-RULES] RE: Game design issues - Free INT > > I am getting tired of spells taking INT. I want to tie > > heroic magic effects to the runes of known spells, but it > > isn't fair for Theists to have an unlimited number of > > spells while restricting Sorcery and Animist users. > Glenn Kirkconnell wrote: > Really, in Runequest this distinction doesn't exist, esp. > in Glorantha. Almost all theist cults have cult spirit > magic, or perhaps sorcery, and almost all shaman cults > have at least a couple of rune spells. I have two specific goals in mind which you couldn't have addressed without realizing my intent. The first, as I hinted above, is that for hero questing and heroic abilities I want to build a skill system for calling on the powers of your runes directly without the benefit of a known spell. This is loosely tied to Steve Maurer's HQ rules which I was working with 3 or 4 years ago. The second is that to simplify the application of many HW concepts to our campaign (mainly for hero questing) it would be useful to continue shifting many RQ practices toward HW practices. This also helps remove our current dependency on enchantments for our sources of power. To paraphrase my roommate, a person should be a hero based on what he can do, not what his magic items can do. We are over fixated on our binds and not our abilities. Your paragraph above, while correct, shows a transition state in the game design theory from the strict cult magic / battle magic system of the old rules to the completely separated magic styles of HW. There was actually a small attempt in the rules to show that a cult spirit spell wasn't quite the same as a shamanic spirit spell, even though they were implemented by the same system. Cult spirit spells are more correctly divine battle magic from the god, while shaman cult divine spells are of very limited use and variety (are they even written up in HW?). History proves that capacity to memorize and analyze are only loosely based on intelligence. IQ deals more with intuitive grasp and speed of comprehension. By removing INT restrictions to spell learning, all three styles can gain similar HQ bonuses for their known spells, and are encouraged to learn more spells for that reason, even if the characters rarely cast those spells themselves. Various familiars and allied spirits native to each style can help cast spells faster, but bound spirits are not as essential to survival as they are in the current game. Characters are more self sufficient and gain their power from internalized sources instead of from toys stolen from opponents. The investment of POW to increase the strength of these spells is a parallel to the investment of POW for divine magic. It allows the investment of 'experience' (POW gains) to increase your magic abilities in a way analogous to HW without actually playing HW. It gives all characters a clear purpose for investing POW to improve themselves magically without being forced to invest that POW into the making of binds that can be taken away. This means that all characters can become more 'magical' over time without being tied to a set of magic items that are actually defining who the character is and what he can do. When combined with the gaining of heroic abilities, a character is able to be powerful without a dependency on items. I am not changing any MP cost rules so there is still the need to collect sources of mana, and other spirits can still be used to cast spells for you to reduce the time until you are at full combat strength. So many of the normal restrictions of the game are still in place and most existing characters will still be valid and playable. > I wouldn't mess with spirit magic; it is supposed to be a > bit on the weak side. It isn't supposed to be sorcery. Spirit magic is intended to be simpler and more basic than other forms, but it is certainly not much weaker. Compare Bladesharp 10 to Damage Boost 10. I realize this is a special case and that Protection doesn't measure up to Shield, but only warriors get Shield. The same applies to Bladesharp vs. Truesword. My suggestion opens up spell progression for animists so that they aren't penalized by the INT limits that other styles have easy ways to get around. It provides a mechanism to strengthen spell knowledge though POW investment instead of finding and binding progressively larger slave spirits. It internalizes the powers and abilities to make characters self sufficient, a necessary, or at least useful, trait for hero questing. > Since sorcerers can have matrices and familiars to store > their spell knowledge, they can have lots of Free INT if > they want to; the effect of the rule is to force them to > choose whether to be really good with a few spells or > mediocre with many, until they get a lot of them > transferred to INT spirits, matrices and familiars. We haven't played with the Free INT rules in almost three years. We base manipulation on the weakest skill you are using to cast the spell. The sorcery Free INT rules really were broken and our alternate rules give a much better feeling of being able to do more as your skill increases. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:20:46 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Ian=20Gordon?= Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Some Thunder Rebels Conversions Nikk Effingham phl0nje@ARTS-01.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK wrote: Hi! After vanishing for a while, I've managed to relocate the digest. I'm not sure if anyone's sent any TR conversions for RuneQuest, so apologies if you have and they were superior to mine:) Included here are conversions for half of the Orlanth Adventurous cults, I've got the other half somewhere, but can't seem to find them. Welcome back Nikk, Your conversions look really impressive. Adds a whole new dimension to playing an Orlanthi in RQ. You say that you had converted half of the Orlanth Adventurous Cults, would you by any chance have a conversion for Drogarsi? Ian Gordon ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:13:00 -0500 From: "Dury, Pascal" Subject: [RQ-RULES] RE: Game design issues - Free INT Hi, IMHO, Free Int concept has always been here to put a limitation to shamans and sorcerer. both poeple who are abble to learn spells "free" whereas use of Rune Magic needs sacrifice of POW. Although I think that for game balancing, it is a necessity to have some limitation, I think that the Free Int concept achieve more than its goal. For shamans (ie animists) >drop this INT restriction since it will take time for intensities to be >raised to abusive levels. Perhaps your maximum intensity is INT/2 but you >can have as many spells as you can learn. I like that. I very like that too. In that way, you still have some limitation but only on the power of the spell. Of course, Heroes should be able to break this limit ... In RQ3, Sorcerers are already pretty much limited and I tend to avoid them (as PC) before Sandy's system. They became more interesting and there is already enough limitations. The only drawback which I can see is with the VESSEL Vow which in this case is always at maximum. I find at (ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/RuneQuest/MailingListArchive/rq-rules/) a "Reilly.Vessel" doc where the Vessel vow seems to be replaced by a kind of Power Matrix in which sorcerers invested POW to act as presence among other possibilities. Any though about it ? It's an old one so it have probably already been discussed here a long time ago... Pascal *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:23:55 -0400 From: "Jim Bickmeyer" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Attack, Parry & tactics from Simon Hibbs >In my experience, these rules are often under-utilised by >many groups. RQ3 Attack Modifies state; "+10% Attacking the targets unshielded side or from behind." So what does that do to the person not using a shield at all? I would and have said that the opponent gains a +10% advantage. But then again, I am not advisory the Hollywood versions of combat in FRP, so I have not been forcing that ruling. Jim Bickmeyer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:03:57 -0400 From: Robert Stancliff Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Some Thunder Rebels Conversions > This make me think of something. Is there an place > where I could find a way to (more or less) convert > a HW character to a standard RQ character? Most of > the zine in the market now give the NPC in HW format > and I don't have the rule, therefore I don't have a > clue to what they can do and how powerful they are. > I could create them from scratch but I need at least > some hints. > Manu Definitely go to the web site and get a copy of the handout with the rules synopsis. I haven't tried to go from HW to RQ, but when I convert from RQ to HW I have had good results with a 3% = 1 HW point conversion. If an ability directly implies a RQ stat then transfer it straight with a limit of about 20 (or scale it down slightly). Frankly, this is the easy part. There is no clear way to convert magic since HW is interpretational and RQ is discrete spells. In most cases you are looking at the type of magic in HW and replacing it with one or more spells of the same power rune or element. The stronger the ability, the stronger the RQ spell or the more RQ spells you allow it to convert to. For divine affinities, you can subtract 17 from each affinity and convert every two points of the remainder to points of divine magic. Then give the person most or all of the cult spirit magic at reasonable intensities to flesh out their definition. In my opinion a devotee is almost the same thing as an acolyte, especially if they are rather experienced, so give them spells appropriately. Don't be afraid to give more spells and intensities than the person can have, just give them enough spirits with good stats to be able to cast all the spells. HW Mastery 0 (no masteries) is beginner to medium skill, mastery 1 is advanced initiate through rune lord or priest, and mastery 2 or higher is hero questors. HW officially requires higher skills to hero quest than I consider necessary in RQ so the conversions are very rough. This is compounded by RQ's difficulty with getting skills over 80% while HW is unlimited. That's all the hints I've got. Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #92 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.