From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.ient.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #121 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Tuesday, October 23 2001 Volume 04 : Number 121 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS RE: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Sorcery Rules and Munchkins RE: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Sorcery Rules and Munchkins Re: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Sorcery Rules and Munchkins RE: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Sorcery Rules and Munchkins Re: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Sorcery Rules and Munchkins [RQ-RULES] layered defense [RQ-RULES] Ekaaron for RQ/Greyhawk RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:13:33 +0300 From: "Korhonen Mikko" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Sorcery Rules and Munchkins Hi all, I'm currently running campaign in West, so most adversaries are also sorcerers... ;) I think that the overall limitations of Presence & Skill/10 balance things out nicely. And also the sorcery spells themselves aren't overly powerfull either. Ok, Evoke Lightning Multispelled and cast with Speed or cast from Hold is instant and also can be quite powerfull, but Sorcerer can usually only do it once or twice before running out of MP:s. Compared to few stacked Thunderbolts/Sunspears or to Sever Spirit i don't see this as a problem. Problem arises with the "permanent/allways up" Resist Spells, Damage Boosts and Fly spells. Some limit is the rule that you can only use one active spell at a time unless you use Multispell also. However this doesn't remove the problems with the passive spells. One way to balance sorcery vs. others is to use Spirits and Elementals. Theists and Spirit Magic users are usually more at home with these. They have some specialiced magics to control and resist them etc. Sorcerers (or at least Malkioni sorcerers) don't cope well with these. By the way Nikk, how do you handle your Henotheists? Have you them using Sorcery instead of Battle Magic? This might make some powerful combinations... I've read through your web material, but this point is still a bit unclear to me. By the way, i'm using your character generation rules, they are Great! I also like your HeroQuest rules, - material and campaign stuff. Cheers, Mikko Korhonen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:39:33 -0500 From: "Dury, Pascal" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Sorcery Rules and Munchkins Well, >Firstly, a medium level sorcery group cannot be caught "with >its pants down" because they don't have to spend time casting >spells to fight, they're already on their weapons. Also they can beat >the crap out of a bunch of runelords who still have to take ages >trying to cast the magic to make themselves good. The number and power of spells that a sorcerer can have is limited by its presence. Thus, sorcerers that maintains a lot of spells or big ones will have a limited use for other magic (exept an emergency spell). Personnaly, I take ideas from various House Rules I found here and there that makes my players think twice. To manage the Maintained spells issue, I use the idea of Stale Presence from P. Hibbs (http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/extrasorcery.html#Top), So sorcerers which want to maintain a lot of spells will have to think about it. That also increase the interest of the Permanance art (for which I left out the extra MP alimentation) which reduce the presence taken for those maintained spells. For Combat issues, I use the idea of concentration Loss - if you take more than half your location hit point damage, you will need a concentration roll to maintain your spells. - if you become inconsious, all your maintained spells vanished. - You also need a concentration roll if you are using an active spell and wanted to do other action. that make players think before they engage battle since they will probably be the 1st target. about sorcerers using harrassment, how about a "dispel/Neutralize magic" as first spell cast by the rune lords ? - -----Message d'origine----- De : N.J. Effingham [mailto:phlnje@ARTS-01.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK] Envoyé : jeudi 18 octobre 2001 15:00 À : runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Objet : [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Sorcery Rules and Munchkins Hiya, I was wondering if anyone has faced a specific problem with Sandy's sorcery rules, or indeed the normal RQIII sorcery rules. The problem is this, sorcery spells last a long time. I mean, a really long time, especially under Sandy's rules when they last until you drop them (more or less). This is a problem when it comes to fights. Firstly, a medium level sorcery group cannot be caught "with its pants down" because they don't have to spend time casting spells to fight, they're already on their weapons. Also they can beat the crap out of a bunch of runelords who still have to take ages trying to cast the magic to make themselves good. Worse still, at high levels if a sorcery magic using party attacks an enemy who relies primarily on rune magic, you attack, get the enemy to cast their rune magic, and then run away (using Fly, Haste or Teleport). Return a little while later and most, if not all, of their spells will be gone (unless they stacked it with Extension, which might, and i say MIGHT save a spell or two). Any ideas on how to level out this immensly unfair advantage? Nikk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:54:52 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Sorcery Rules and Munchkins "N.J. Effingham" wrote: > > Hiya, > > The problem is this, sorcery spells last a long time. I mean, a > really long time, especially under Sandy's rules when they last until > you drop them (more or less). This is a problem when it comes to > fights. Firstly, a medium level sorcery group cannot be caught "with Presence limits this, and a stacked divine Dispel knocks down most sorcery without breaking a sweat. About the time my group begins to get heavy with precast sorcery is when the opposition learns to get a few Dispel's stacked together - one of my house rules is that if any one part of a multispell is dispelled, the whole framework dissolves, so a group of six flying damage resistant foes suddenly becomes a gaggle of plummeting geese when the fly component of the Fly6/DR6-MS6 gets dispelled. > high levels if a sorcery magic using party attacks an enemy who > relies primarily on rune magic, you attack, get the enemy to cast > their rune magic, and then run away (using Fly, Haste or Teleport). This can work against any magic using group, really. > Any ideas on how to level out this immensly unfair advantage? Depends on your world of choice. IMC, sorcerers are everywhere. - -- talmeta@optonline.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine AIM - talmeta ICQ - 12594453 Homepage - I'm not offering myself as an example; every life evolves by its own laws. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:09:03 -0700 From: "Andrew O. Mellinger" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Sorcery Rules and Munchkins You've got some good point here and I'd like to add some more. > >Firstly, a medium level sorcery group cannot be caught "with >>its pants down" because they don't have to spend time casting >>spells to fight, they're already on their weapons. Also they can beat >>the crap out of a bunch of runelords who still have to take ages >>trying to cast the magic to make themselves good. When I ran a Seshnela game we had a couple of sorcerers, and they maintained a lot of spells too. I had a house rule that said that maintaining spells via presence still required MP. We use the metric of the casting cost every week. (A week is a nice round number) So a person had to spend 1/7 of their casting cost in MP every day. Now, they didn't actually spent it. Spells in presence actually drew it slowly so the casters effective MP (and POW for regen) we effective lessend by 1/7th of the MP of the spells maitained. So let's say a sorecere maintains a 14 pt spell. Let's say he has a POW of 13. He now effective has a POW of 11 for regenerating MP and for holding MP. >The number and power of spells that a sorcerer can have is limited by its >presence. >Thus, sorcerers that maintains a lot of spells or big ones will have a >limited use for other magic (exept an emergency spell). Nick, I had the same discussion with Sandy a while ago and one of the big things he pointed out was range. The recipients of a spell must stay within the initial casting range to keep the spell going. If they step out it is gone. So don't forget to make the mages have a good range so those scouts and bowmen can keep their spells up while they go out for recon. If they go out, the sorcerer is going to have to recast that spell which will be expensive. >For Combat issues, I use the idea of concentration Loss > - if you take more than half your location hit point damage, you >will need a concentration roll to maintain your spells. > - if you become inconsious, all your maintained spells vanished. > - You also need a concentration roll if you are using an active >spell and wanted to do other action. Any smart opponents will know that the sorceres are the guys to hit. They will bear the brunt of the missile attacks. - -Andrew - -- /*----------------------------------------------------------------- mailto:andrew@crashbox.com http://www.crashbox.com -----------------------------------------------------------------*/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:37:26 -0700 From: Brad Furst Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Sorcery Rules and Munchkins In the campaign in which I play, the medium level characters were created using Nikk's character creation rules (Nikk, where is your web site nowadays? http://members.nbci.com/_XOOM/wakboth/chargen.htm seems to be a dead end) and the two sorcerers remain vulnerable. One maintains, at best, Damage Resist 8, and the other maintains Boost Armor sufficient to give his soft leather AP5 instead of AP1. I think we may have a Boost Damage 4 on one (maybe two?) weapon(s). We have a small assortment of 2 point spells maintained. We have barely enough Presence remaining to try Palsy-6 once or twice. I think a "medium level" party can't really beat the same number of rune level characters. If the sorcerers have their defenses maintained, then they don't have enough Presence to Boost their weapons, and vice versa. Boosted weapons are useless when in limbs disabled by called shots (called shots, aimed blows, are successful often enough when used by runelords whose attack chances are amplified by magic). Runelords are often helped by spells cast by allied spirits. Medium level sorcerers which use their Presence in advance rarely have ability or opportunity to accomplish necessary healing magic subsequently. Is this "medium level sorcery group" REALLY only medium level? How much Presence does each sorcerer have available? How many (and which?) spells can they cast at better than intensity 4? >I was wondering if anyone has faced a specific problem with >Sandy's sorcery rules, or indeed the normal RQIII sorcery rules. >The problem is this, sorcery spells last a long time. I mean, a >really long time, especially under Sandy's rules when they last until >you drop them (more or less). This is a problem when it comes to >fights. Firstly, a medium level sorcery group cannot be caught "with >its pants down" because they don't have to spend time casting >spells to fight, they're already on their weapons. Also they can beat >the crap out of a bunch of runelords who still have to take ages >trying to cast the magic to make themselves good. Worse still, at >high levels if a sorcery magic using party attacks an enemy who >relies primarily on rune magic, you attack, get the enemy to cast >their rune magic, and then run away (using Fly, Haste or Teleport). >Return a little while later and most, if not all, of their spells will be >gone (unless they stacked it with Extension, which might, and i >say MIGHT save a spell or two). > >Any ideas on how to level out this immensly unfair advantage? > >Nikk Brad Furst esoteric@teleport.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:59:35 -0700 From: Brad Furst Subject: [RQ-RULES] layered defense Last evening my troll was encountered by a gorpthing. I had cuirboulli armor (3 AP), natural troll skin (1-point), spirit magic Protection-2, and sorcerous Resist Damage-4. The gorpthing was doing 8 points of damage. The question for consideration is: In this example, how many points does the Damage Resist need to resist on the Resistance Table? I think Sandy Petersen has ruled that Damage Resist is tested early, on the outside, and certainly before Protection-2. However, I hope that is wrong; if Damage Resist is checked before other defenses subtract damage, then Damage Resist is almost useless (unless it is cranked up way high). Brad Furst esoteric@teleport.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 00:07:51 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: [RQ-RULES] Ekaaron for RQ/Greyhawk (Purely of my own (warped) design)... EKAARON Runes: Darkness, Beast, Evil Called the Dark Beast, Ekaaron is the bleakest and most forbidding of the chenxa pantheon, personifying death, violence, and carnage. Cult in the World Born to Naharra of an unknown suitor (some whisper Nerull, or perhaps Celestian) Ekaaron was something of a surprise and a disappointment. Black as pitch with dull white mane and tail, only the brilliant silver of his eyes were thought remarkable by his kin. While his brothers tolerated his company, his sisters feared him outright, and most others of his herd thought him a troublemaker and a lout. As Time progressed, Ekaaron proved all the predictions about him to be true; where his mother created life, he took it, and where his mother sought to bring chenxa together in love, Ekaaron sought to separate them by hatred, violence, and death. Finally, he was driven out by his kin and forced to dwell beyond the horizon, but he was never forgotten, for he continued to make his presence felt whenever weakness gave him an opening. When prospective shamans of other chenxa gods face the Nemesis, it is Ekaaron that they face. The souls of those who lose are given to new shamans serving Ekaaron as their initial fetches. Ekaaron's shamans celebrate his High Holy Day on the 11th of Goodmonth, the darkest night of the year. Rituals typically require live sacrifices, with lots of drumming and chanting. Lesser holidays are observed whenever one or the other of the moons enter their new phase, as well. Shrines to Ekaaron are portable affairs, carved from the heartwood of an oak or maple tree, stained black with the dried blood of the sacrifices made upon it. Fly motifs are common, as are symbols representing double lunar eclipses. Shamans serving Ekaaron generally dye their own hides as black as those of their lord, and bleach their manes and tails to match as well. Hair and tail are intricately braided, often with colorful insect carapaces added for accent. Lay Membership Requirements: Few chenxa willingly serve the Beast. Only those outcast by their own herd or the rare tribe that has been forcibly converted to his service can be truly called members of this cult. No skills are taught to those who have not accepted the Cup and Brand. Initiate Membership Requirements: Those who would pledge their souls to the Dark Beast must undergo several weeks of testing and abuse by the shaman they will serve. Those who pass such tests are known as the Nigarsi'spiri (Soul-Tainted). The first ritual is known as the Brand, and it is simply that; the supplicant accepts a complex set of brands upon his hindquarters that might or might not serve as the focus of an enchantment later. This procedure can take as long as two weeks, depending upon the individual shaman and his plans for the supplicant. The second ritual is known as the Dark Cup, and it utilizes an enchanted cup made from the skull of an infant chenxa, from which the supplicant and all those present sip a mixture of fermented blood, mare's milk, and special herbs. All will sacrifice a point of POW to Ekaaron, as well (this ritual is generally held as a part of the High Holy Day celebrations). Skills taught to initiates include the following: Dance, Dodge, Jump, Throw, Seduction, Speak Languages, Craft (bone, wood), First Aid, Lores (Chenxa, Insect, Poison, Spirit, World), Play Drums, Listen, Scan, Scent/Taste, Track, Ambush, Hide, Ceremony, and Sickle attack. Spirit Magic: Most spirit magic is available from the shamans of this cult, though most will only teach the following to their followers: Befuddle, Countermagic, Darkwall, False Healing, Farsee, Mindspeech, Shimmer, Sneeze, and Visibility. 'Acolyte' Membership Requirements: While not the standard type of acolyte found in most cults, certain Nigarsi'spiri will be selected to aid the shaman in more direct means than normal. Known as Felenu'spiri (Bleeding-Souled), they seldom are candidates for true advancement, but the brands laid upon their flesh form intricate matrices for spirit bindings and other effects useful to their shaman. Few survive for more than a year with such status, but in those tribes that venerate Ekaaron openly, their power and authority is second only to that of the shaman who leads the tribe. Priesthood / Shamans Requirements: Standard for shamans. Known as the Valhas'spiri (Soul-Lost), priests of Ekaaron are wholly dedicated to the precepts their god expouses, spreading disease, death, and violence wherever they go. The sickle wielded by a Valhas'spiri is typically made of bone, usually shaped from the lower ribs of a young chenxa and enchanted to be as hard as steel. Virtues for Ekaaron include Angry, Destructive, Misanthropic, and Vengeful. Common Divine Magic: Call Followers, Command Cult Spirit (passion spirits, shades), Dismiss Magic, Divination, Enchant Holy Symbol, Extension, Initiate, Mindlink, Range, Sanctify, Spellteaching, Summon (passion spirits, shades), Warding, Worship Ekaaron. Special Divine Magic: Berserk, Carry , Cause , Dark Walk, Ekaaron's Rib, Fear, Pain Blow. Shamanic Taboos No Cure Disease No Resurrection May only bind Cult Spirits Spirit of Retribution Binlar: Ekaaron's Spirit of Retribution is a perverse fusion of a shade and a hate spirit. When an follower of initiate level or higher tries to leave the cult or otherwise displeases Ekaaron, Binlar is certain to pay the errant chenxa a visit Choosing a time that is inconvenient for the target, Binlar attacks much as a shade would, using his SIZ of 10 cubic meters to engulf his target and his STR of 45 to hold them fast. Rather than fearshock, however, Binlar engages his target in spirit combat, and if victorious, possesses the target as a hate spirit would. Such a possessed victim takes on the black coat of Ekaaron (courtesy of the shade) and their hair turns white of it's own accord. Driven by the hate spirit, they go on a berserk rampage, attempting to kill anything nearby or seeking their own violent end if alone. Even if another successfully exorcises Binlar, the victim's hair retains the white coloration as a reminder of the experience. Binlar has the following stats: STR: 45, SIZ: 10, POW: 28, DEX: 12, HP: 40, MV: 28 Associated Gods None - -- talmeta@optonline.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine AIM - talmeta ICQ - 12594453 Homepage - 668: The Neighbor of the Beast *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #121 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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