I think we have something we can work with here.
> > I don't think that Broyan is "aiming for rule over the
entire Holy
> > Country" - are you basing this on the reference to Broyan
being King of
> > Kethaela in the Annotated Argrath Saga? Frankly, I don't
think that
> > Broyan has any interest in the Holy Country per se -
definitely
> > Heortland and maybe Esrolia, probably not the Shadow
Plateau.
> I think Broyan after Icebreak might aim to be King of
Vingkotela,
> which includes Esrolia and Heortland. Summer King, for a
start. He is
> quite successful getting Caladrian support, but he seems to
disdain
> the Islanders.
This makes sense - although I don't think he is there yet (ie. during the siege of Whitewall). My thought is that the political dimensions of being a Vingkotling ruler is less important to Broyan than the magical dimensions. I don't see Broyan as politically ambitious so much as magically and mythically ambitious - in ways that have political ramifications.
After Whitewall, I think Broyan has successfully identified himself as a Vingkotling ruler (maybe even a Kodigvari Hidden King). This changes much of the political geography in Kethaela - and Kerofinela. It also probably gives Broyan a way out of the Larnsti limitation - since I think the Hidden Kings were actually the inspiration for Hendreik (and thus Larnsti themselves).
> > Definitely not Caladraland, the Islands or God Forgot.
However,
> > following the Battle of Iceland, I think that Broyan is
generally
> > recognized as High King of the Hendriki (and of Heortland).
As a
> > result, he meets the qualifications for ruler of a Sixth
and can
> > enter the City of Wonders.
> If that is part of "Heortland" as in travel restrictions for
Larnsti...
See above. We need to think through the "travel restrictions for Larnsti" although I think Broyan gets around it by being a Vingkotling.
>> Let's talk about the Larsnti for a moment. They exist in
precisely
> > three published sources: (1) G:IHW, (2) OiD; and (3)
DP:LoT. Of
> > these three, OiD is the most important.
> The other two have been written by Peter, but, as he said,
under a
> different premise. We now have to adapt the text to the
current model.
Yep. OiD is the most important because that is the campaign - it has to be accurate. The others less so.
> > (1) The Larnsti are a magical brotherhood founded by
Hendreik so
> > that his people would never be conquered. This is strongly
> > paralleled with Broyan the Last Free King. They are a
heroband.
> There is a substantial difference, though: Hendreik never was
High
> King of Heortland. I'm not even sure he was king of the
Hendreiki,
> reading the heroes list in Storm Tribe.
True enough. But then again, there wasn't a Heortland in Hendreik's time. Besides, the magical identification does not have to be 100% - merely substantial. Hendreik might not have even been a "king" - whatever that means. He was certainly leader of the Hendreiki, which if I recall were a large band of Orlanthi who fought against Lokomoko during Vargast's time.
> > (2) The Larnsti are not restricted in the mysteries of the
god they
> > chose to study - they worship freedom and liberty. They
are likely
> > initiates of Orlanth as well - in fact I see now reason why
Free
> > Hendreik is not a subcult of Orlanth who then provides
access to
> > Larnst.
> Are they in any way tied to the "Wanderlore" pilgrimages
mentioned
> e.g. in TR? Are those pilgrimages a lesser form of
Larnsti-ism?
Possibly. Or it could be related. We don't need perfect correlations, just things that evoke the "essential mysteries".
> > (3) King Andrin replaced the true Larnsti with
Larnsti-lite. The
> > sheriffs have weakened the Spirit of Hendreik.
> I'd still like to know whether a) Andrin was a Larnsti before
he died
> and b) whether his reform in any way forbade Larnsti practice
within
> his kingdom. (If so, then how did Gollanstead survive?)
My answers are a) yes and b) no. Andrin's reforms replace the Larnsti with the sheriffs. I doubt he forbade Larnsti practice - just removed its social and political raison d'etre.
> > (4) The Larnsti - and Broyan - cannot leave Heortland
(which
> > includes the lands of the Volsaxar Confederation of the
Bacofi,
> > Curtali, Sylangi, and Volsaxi - and once upon a time the
Kultain).
> > Fortunately the Battle of Iceland occurs in "Heortland".
This is
> > a big reason why Broyan is not more directly involved in
Sartar's
> > liberation.
> Let's have a closer look at this.
>What is the definition of Heortland? Where is the border that
a
> Larnsti cannot cross?
Good question. Maybe it is really linked to Hendreik's activities more than "Heortland".
> Sometime in 1622 or 23, Broyan will be appointed "Protector
of
> Kethaela" or so, and move his war to Esrolia. Even using the
generous
> Heortland definition of "where the Heortlings live, or have
lived once
> upon a time" this does not include Nochet, Pennel or the rest
of Esrolia.
> Broyan fights in the Kodigvari lands, though. Did/will he
(and his
> heroband) manage to re-define "Heortland" as "Lands of the
Summer
> Tribe Vingkotlings"?
I like this! Or maybe he sidestepped it altogether as the Hidden King? Remember, many of these limitations may be changed or eliminated as a result of Whitewall and Iceland.
> Or does his assumption of some sort of sovereignty expand
Heortland
> into "the land ruled by a Heortling king"?
See above.
> > The true Larnsti - like the Spirit of Hendreik - are almost
> > gone. IMO, Broyan revives them and the Spirit of Hendreik.
> > This is an important element of Broyansaga at Whitewall.
> > This may happen during the siege.
> In that case, is his being Larnsti still a valid "excuse" for
missing
> out Starbrow's Rebellion?
Yep. He may have never left Heortland until after Whitewall.
> And what about raiding in Sartar?
I don't think that Broyan did. The Volsaxi might have - but not Broyan.
> > Broyan is "Leader of the Larnsti 5M2"
> > We also know that a "Typical Larnst Warrior" has as
keywords
> > - "Warrior 7M2", "Escape 19 M2" and uses spear and
javelins.
> >
> > From OiD, I think it is safe to extrapolate that the
Larnsti are
> > Broyan's personal heroband and that there are "25 members
of the
> > Larnsti" left.
> Personally, I prefer a "Larnsti Warband" which has a maximum
of 25
> members. Jedi-stuff, with Padawan-pupils and the like. Or
maybe
> something akin to Gemmel's Temple of the Twelve (in his
Drenai saga,
> including "Legend") - a band of magical warriors able to do
powerful
> Wyter stuff once their leader has overcome his weaknesses.
(Gemmel's
> Templars also tend to gather to die for a cause, except for
the
> templar who trains the next generation.)
I don't think this is incompatible. Let's say that Broyan revitalizes the Larnsti - making them his personal heroband. Remember, the post-Andrini kings are not Larnsti, instead they come from the ranks of the sheriffs. Broyan revitalizes them along the lines of the magical brotherhood established by Hendreik (more or less). I think they may have been scattered across Heortland and Broyan unifies them. Presumably, there were all sorts of magical quests and feats that Broyan had to do to revitalize the Larnsti and the Spirit of Hendreik.
> The Larnsti appear to have some mystic touch. Not the Refute
20W6
> kind, rather similar to the cool but limited draconic stuff
used by
> Obduran the Flyer or Vistikos Left-Eye. Transcendant like
Larnste himself.
Yeah - although I think that is the Spirit of Hendreik.
> I'd like to have inactive, either retired or not yet fully
trained
> Larnsti wandering about, incognito. They support the
heroband, but
> aren't an active part of it. They may receive the calling
when one of
> the heroband expires. Appearance and status may vary
strongly.
This works for me - what matters is that Broyan revitalizes the Spirit of Hendreik and reassembles the Larnsti. All sorts of "once and future" king stuff. Some of this might happen during the siege. Which could be a cool sub-plot in its own right: Broyan increasingly taking on the mantle of Hendreik and the leader of the Larnsti.
> > Most Larnsti have no Sartar-like changing magics, - instead
they
> > are each the near-equivalent of a clan champion and have an
> > Escape ability (which is presumably a magical affinity).
This
> > makes me believe that the Spirit of Hendreik is the main
source
> > of cool Larnsti magic. The Spirit of Hendreik is the
Guardian
> > of the Larnsti.
> Another thought: there are 23 corpses when Whitewall is
taken. Which
> other Larnsti survived? (Assuming Broyan is counted as one of
the 25)
I think all of them. Here is a key bit about the siege from OiD that I think we missed:
"At an isolated clan rite high in the Storm Mountains, King Broyan and his closest companions appear upon ice-covered ponies and ask to participate as foreigners in the rite. The Bullflood Clan agrees to let them, and the rites conclude exactly as they do elsewhere. Until the end. Broyan adds one line which he has brought forth from the Old Wind Prophet:
"This is the Great Darkness, prepare for the fight."
His words cause a chill breath to shiver from everyone's wracked body. Though no one realizes it at first, those chilly breaths hale together to the clan healer, who is suddenly well. Magic works! She has a complete choice: heal all her people a little, her chieftain completely, or the vistor? She heals the many people. They then heal everyone else a little bit. That pleases Broyan.
"WE HAVE FOOLED THE RED GODDESS AGAIN. NO ONE WAS IN WHITEWALL FOR ALL THOSE MONTHS. WE LIVED IN ICE REFUGE, A STEAD HALL ATOP STORMWALK. THE OLD WIND PROPHET SPOKE TO US THERE. WE ALL REMEMBER THIS MESSAGE." (For more information on Ice Refuge, see Storm Tribe, pg. 129).
John - I think we need to change the timetable and some of our assumptions. I think Whitewall may have been empty for much of 1621! Maybe even since Sacred Time!
> > DP:LoT reinforces the idea that the Larnsti are a magical
> > heroband that work to liberate the people.
> So the influence of the Larnsti kept both God Learners and
the EWF
> mostly out of (modern) Heortland?
Yep.
> > No - look at Sartar's power for an example of what Larnste
magic is
> > like. Sartar was not the run of the mill Larnsti.
> Sartar also manages to break off the collective. As if he
reached the
> limited mystic goal of the individual Larnsti and continued
elsewhere.
> "He mastered the Change Rune"...
Exactly.
> > On the contrary, I think that Hendreik Freeman is the
Guardian
> > of the Larnsti.
> You will have to do some more convincing me, Jeff, but I like
the
> general thrust of this theory.
I do too.:) We should start tinkering around with writing up this heroband.
Jeff
The New World Is Born On the Walls On Whitewall. Come the Hurricane!
The New World Can Be Healed. Whitewall Must Fall!
Powered by hypermail