RE: The Hidden Kings

From: Jeff Richard <richj_at_...>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:36:45 -0800


Hey -

         > >Greg said that the Hidden Kings had taken wolf form and started

	 > >devouring other Orlanthi such as Heort's deer people. 
	 > I remember this debate. In fact I even ran a HeroQuest for my

	 > players in which they were among the last defenders of
Seriasdora 
	 > (and mythically the last survivors of the world) still loyal
to the 
	 > memory of Orlanth (now dead) and contending with the Hidden
Kings 
	 > who, with Orlanth dead, had turned to animist/hsunchen
beliefs for 
	 > survival. They even aided Heort overthrow the hidden kings.
	 
	My take on the Hidden Kings is that they shapeshifted into wolf
form (or raven form or dove form, doesn't really matter - just that they shapeshifted) and tried to survive the Darkness in that manner. I don't think they became animists or hsunchen - in fact, my take on the last Vingkotlings is that they pretty much rejected god, spirit or sorcery. Heort aided the Hidden Kings but eventually defeated/supplanted them. I think that there is much transformative magic, sovereignty magic and rebirth and renewal magic involved in the Hidden Kings story. Like the Second Son myth, I think there is a lot more there than meets the eye.          

         > But AFAIK Jeff is not trying to deny the description of the Hidden

         > Kings as shapeshifters. He is suggesting that Broyan is trying to

         > ritually link the Hidden Kings ability to shape change with the

         > transformative magic of the Larnsti. Its about mythic identification

         > bringing magical power.          

        Exactly. For whatever reason, Broyan is trying to mythically identify himself with Vingkot and his tribe. I assume that he is seeking powers from the Vingkotling age for his people in order to resist the Lunars (re: Dara Happans). Maybe he tries to call armies of long-dead Vingkotling warriors? Maybe the secret to the Bat-Blat lies in Vingkot's mythology?          

> I think there are useful parallels and it makes for
interesting

> story telling. IIRC Jeff suggested that Broyan might be doing
this

> because he believes he can step back through mythic roles and
> restore the Kodigvari kingship. Of course that does not mean
he can,

> just that he is trying. Now I guess another alternative could
be

> that he starts as a Vingkotling king, hence his worship of all

> aspects of Vingkot, but is now seeking to progress throug
being a

> Hidden King through mythic identification with the Larnsti,
and

> finally become Heort and thus be a Heortling king. But Jeff's
> explorations, for me, add a lot to understanding Broyan.
         

        This is exactly my point. The defenders at WW did three remarkable things: (1) they defeated the Bat (which having read the Moon Rite write-up is truly amazing); (2) they managed to hold off the Lunars for nearly three years; (3) they managed to escape. Broyan is intricately involved in all three remarkable things. So let's explore them.         

        Personally, I can't decide if Broyan is trying to have himself set up for the Heort role or the Vingkot role. Or both. One idea for a WW scenario is that as part of his mythic identification with the Larnsti and the Vingkotlings (presumably while trying to find a magical escape from WW in 1621), Broyan transforms himself into a Hidden King and the players are stuck in the Heort role - they need to defeat him and reintegrate him into the world.          

        What do you think?          

        Jeff

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