RE: Re: PEOPLE: Broyan and the Larnsti

From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_...>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:25:32 +1300


At 09:59 AM 3/10/04 -0800, you wrote:

>The Larnsti are a magical brotherhood founded by Hendreik the Free, the
>unconquered rebel who resisted the Gbaji Empire, helped Harmast,
>supported Arkat and made Owenreth High King of the Heortlings.

IMO the Larnsti predare Hendreik and that Hendreik's achievement was to create a Kingdom under their aegis. Gollan's infamous stead is "thousands of years old" (DP:LoT p29) indicating a pre-Hendreik origin (and for the record, that phrase was inserted in my description).

>The Larnsti worship Larnsti through Hendreik (although
>there have been a few Larnsti who managed to independently contact
>Larnste - Sartar comes to mind).

No. Hendreik is a hero. Post-dawn Heroes (non-Lunars) only provide a feat (c.f. the examples in Storm Tribe). Greater power is only available to theists through divine sources. I've already cited the example of Alakoring providing a feat by himself and also one or two subcults. This is an apparent consequence of the Great Compromise that sets Gods and Mortals apart.

Secondly if the Larnsti did worship Larnste through Hendreik then they would be called Hendreiki, not Larnsti.

>Through the Spirit of Hendreik, the
>Larnsti are able to draw on the magic of a Celestial Court deity to
>protect the Hendriki.

Larnste is no longer a Celestial Court deity.

>The Kings of the Hendriki were selected from the membership of the
>Larnsti brotherhood. However, when King Andrin returned from the dead,
>he appointed sheriffs to fulfill most of the functions of the Larnsti.

No. He appointed the nobles and sheriffs to wield Hendreik's Freedom. The Larnsti have other powers which King Andrin has left unchanged.

>Over the centuries, the Larnsti dwindled and the Spirit of Hendreik
>weakened.

I disagree strongly. The Freedom remained intact (although somewhat damaged in the north by King Hadrad's revolt) until the civil war. It was the presence of a New King that cared nothing for archaic rituals that allowed the Kingdom to be conquered.

>When the Heortlendings were easily defeated (and nearly
>conquered) by a small Lunar diversionary force commanded by Fazzur
>Wideread in 1605, the remaining Larnsti and those who still followed the
>old ways were shocked to realize how weak the Spirit of Hendreik had
>become.

The Heortlanders were not nearly conquered. All that is said is that Fazzur won a clear victory over them and besieged the city of Karse. Hendreik's Freedom does not mean invincibility in battles, it means freedom from conquest. The God Learners and the Bright Empire both made huge inroads into Hendreik's territory but never conquered him or his people.

> The unreconciled Andrinic Heortlanders and their Malkioni
>counterparts aren't Hendreiki anymore. At least in the sense of being
>protected by (and worshipping) Hendreik the Free.

I disagree strongly. If Andrin was dumping Hendreik et al., I do feel a lot of people would have noticed and complained.

> Yeah - if Broyan meets the criteria for being recognized by the
>Guardians of the City of Wonders as ruler of Heortland (whatever that
>means) and ruler of Esrolia (whatever that means), he should be able to
>grant entry to the City of Wonders.

I still think that the Pharoah would make one of the criteria submission to the Pharaoh. It seems extraordinarily myopic to allow a foreign conquerer access to the city once he has conquered sufficient territory

> Exactly. And in Broyan's traditionalist view (shared by a lot
>of Heortlending Orlanthi IMO), the Andrini cease to be the Hendriki
>after 1617.

They don't. They are still Hendreiki even if they are leaderless.

> > They have displaced the communal worship of the Spirit of
> > Hendreik from the Andrinic clan rites by their pharaonic version, I
> > suppose?

> Seems to be what the sources suggest

The source suggest no such thing.

> > If [the Larnsti] were almost gone, then I wouldn't have wasted
> so much
> >space in describing them.

> That's not really much of an argument.:) And DP:LoT does not
> explicitly say any of that.

So it's all very well for you to rely on implicit suggestions but I have to rely on explicit statements?

> Yep. And there is only 25 of them. Besides I disagree that is
>extraordinarily weak - it is the standard for the leader of a heroband.

So? It is still weak for a magical brotherhood which is what I said.

--Peter Metcalfe

Powered by hypermail