yep I'm not sure about some of it either!
> FWIW when I wrote the 'generic' Sartarite city
> description I took the arrangements of Pavis as a
> guide (after all Dorasor presumably learnt his style
> there), but drew on Viking Jorvik for an understanding
> of what the houses would be like. Greg and others then
> later modified that original. There we have a model of
> a mixture of timber buildings that are urbanised
> 'steads' (gardens instead of homefields, many more
> single family dwellings) with some 'stone' buildings
> for the rich. That's pretty much a good feel for how a
> 'Orlanthi' city might be.
Yep agreed and made adjustments to the descriptions to reflect this. I checked out Jorvik 'cos that seems to be the ideal. I prefer a mix also.
>
> But while there might be parts of Whitewall that feel
> this way overall I (and I think others) don't see
> Whitewall as a living city but a citadel. Think Helm's
> Deep more than Edoras. Think cyclopean walls of an
> imposing royal palace not the homes of the masses.
> Think dusty corridors hung with decaying tapestries
> and dust-covered fountains, long unused, rather than
> common folks hovels. Think Balazaring citadels not
> Pavis.
Yea, but Whitewall is a failure. I personally don't see it with
cyclopean walls. Wintertop yes, Whitewall no. Personal taste thing
again! However I don't see a Pavis but a once beautiful Heortling
Citadel with elaborate Longhouses for the influetial Temple workers
but now crumbling and (excuse the phrase) needing a lick of woad.
>
> There will be few 'shops' as we understand them. Some
> craftsmen may work here, supporting the royal
> presence, but I doubt many are associated with
> agricultural production. My suspicion is that
> Whitewall imports much of its necessities, one reason
> why it never took off as a city. So I think that
> cheesemakers, tanners, dyers and the like would not be
> found here, far easier for them to be located close to
> the source of production. Think high status crafts
> which 'add value' to raw products instead. In addition
> think warehouses and importers who supply the
> commodities from outside. Think a great marketplace
> where traders come (well once came) to supply the
> thanes and kings.
Hmm...Imported goods tend to be more expensive. Surely it makes economic sense for Mr Peasant to either make his own boots or trade his excess cheese (sorry best I could think of spur of the moment) for a pair rather than use money to purchase a pair...in 3 weeks time...and over priced.
>
> Be careful of inns. They are to some extent an
> anachronism. Guests stay with the king (I know this
> seem suprising but go and read a few Icelandic sagas
> and you will quickly realise that outsiders meet with
> and are guests of the local bigwig. That's because it
> is much rarer to travel than now. There is no need for
> hotels for tourists, only important folks or
> undesirables travel. This is different in the Empire
> of course). If we feel the need for a tavern (probably
> the outgrowth of an oversupplied beer importer) let's
> just have the one.
Yep again looked at using Guesthouses as converted "taverns". There
will be alot of newbie warriors wanting a pint and not all could be
in the Chief's Hall. If they are and I was Tatius that will be my
first target!
>
> Similarly its all too easy in 'fantasy' cities to
> throw in too many wierd elements or humour. Less is
> more as they say. So the marble longhouses, warrens
> for strange fury animals, battling Meerschaum pipe
> makers etc, while individually okay begin to grate
> when thrown together. There is a taste element here.
> Whatever oddities may work for you and your group may
> not work for others. People feel happy overelooking
> the one or two they don't like, but plop them on every
> street and folks will soon feel overwhelmed. Note that
> even the wacky Greg doesn't throw handfuls of wierd
> elements everyplace, just one or two to lighten the
> tone. And even then some folks complain...
Sorry I do not see rabbits as strange furry animals but as a cheap
food source which is self sustaining with a useful bi-product (fur).
I do agree that oddities in excess do detract. But a few add colour
and flavour. That's what put me off AD&D and why I dislike Ducks!
(Sorry I don't mean offense)
>
> Finally cities are ultimately dull. Don't try to
> detail every shop and every building. You will feel
> too encouraged to give every place a big story. Every
> place has a story, but they are generally local and
> boring to everyone else (Is Wilms Aunt Bara's favorite
> or Jonrik?). It is easier to say something that is
> more of an overview like 'a resedential area mainly
> wattle and daub single family hearths, but with new
> stone houses on the west side where rich colks have
> moved in for the views along the river' or the like.
Totally agree. What is the point in detailing a hat shop (again sorry first thing that popped into head)and PC's never even going within 3m of it! However an outline does no harm. Again this has been taken care off. Please edit what you like on the City Locations.
>
> Hope that helps,
Yep, feedback is good as long its constructive. steve.
and that was good feedback!
>
> Ian Cooper
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