Re: Lunar use of Chaos

From: Greg <Greg_at_niSNaQfsEn2dMGZyCtxLumpx4wXvaAx-JQY6U0mHlJ4X-WTNxLeANCCi4a4xLnxG1W9xwza>
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 07:49:09 -0800

YGWV donald_at_jtV1Pok24n_J7zjKNJZwbDsxEg8ehMhl0usXdwQwpb_JPxunBK5KvLmoAtLf9LpmBZUMno9MA0PaVoSc0CT7EA.yahoo.invalid wrote:
> <mailto:464B9174.201%40glorantha.com>> Greg writes:
>
> >And I still think this is so.
> >It is easy for us in the modern world to forget that the everyday
> >violence of life prevails in most of the ancient world, even within
> >(say) the interior of the Roman Empire.
> >I do believe that the magnitude of everyday violence is the least within
> >the Lunar Empire, expecially since exterior threats are so, so far away.
>
> I'll agree that the Lunar empire has a class of people who are
> sufficently well off that they are insulated from violence but
> overall I would have thought there was more violence in the
> cities than there is the barbarian lands. Simply because the
> more people there are crammed together the greater likelyhood
> od violence. Furthermore the constraints on violence are more
> effective where people know each other. I'll agree the threat
> of external violence is much lower but internal violence from
> mobs and criminals will be far higher.

I didn't mean to imply that the vast slums of the huge cities are the nice places.
The majority of people live in traditional rural settings, and those regions are basically without external threats whatsoever. That is the majority of people, and they are much more peaceful in their small, tight knit traditional ways.

>
> >Furthermore, the internal trade of the empire, coupled with the
> >aforementioned peace, generates a standard of living that is
> >considerably above the desperate, hand-to-mouth level that is
> >standard for pre-industrial societies.
>
> Again that's going to be true for the minority but I can't see
> it applying to the average peasant or labourer. Indeed I would
> expect their position to be worse than a typical Sartarite
> cottar.

Anything that improves the "famine one is seven years" cycle that is normal for agricultural societies is a vast improvement in standards of living. Yea, they still have such events, but they are greatly alleviated by the fact that SOME food is shuttled to their territories by their overlords.

And their chiefs and leaders would be benefiting from the increased distribution of luxury goods, even if it is only a different style of cup they drink out of, etc.

> The benefits of the industrial revolution didn't filter
> down to ordinary people for something like 50 to a 100 years

How long has the Empire been at peace since Sheng Seleris was ejected?

> and in the interim the standard of living of most city dwellers
> was lower than for rural people.

But once again, I'm not talking about the city dwellers.

Heck, the standard of living for agricultural people in general is worse than for hunter gatherers, too. Sure, sedentary people have more stuff, but they also are less healthy, have less free time and less social mobility (although far more society to be mobile in!)

> >Finally, the overlay of the Lunar religion, philosophy and
> >government presents opportunities that are unknown in most
> >societies. Not that is is free and open, but that there is
> >some chance.
>
> True.

Whew! Agreement! :)

-- 
Sincerely,
Greg Stafford

Issaries, Inc.
1942 Channing Way, #204
Berkeley, CA 94704