>I disagree with the 80% figure for devotees - if only because I want
>them to be playable. Making the only theists who can use
>non-penalized, active, independently improvable magic into workaholic
>freaks is the opposite of what is MGF, IMG. I think that either the
>wording in HQ is out of line (see previous sentence for why), or that
>you are conflating disciples, who seem unplayable (at least in the
>games I've seen), with devotees, who are may be the most played level
>of theist PC - and who don't seem to be played like 80%
>time-spoken-for workaholics.
Why should 80% time commitment make devotees unplayable? If they are full time warriors their story is going to revolve around their work for the clan. Same with other occupations. I know in RQ there was a tendency to regard the time commitment as something which detracted from their ability to adventure but there's no reason to treat it that way. Just that if a warrior is going to spend seasons away from the clan he's going to have to find other means of support.
>I suggest that the 60% time use figure for devotees includes
>everything - job included - in order to allow players to have PCs with
>(see above for adjectives) "active" magic. If the HQ book hints
>otherwise, I suggest that it is wrong - as it seems to be in many
>other cases.
I'm quite happy to regard the HQ book as wrong on this. What I'm not happy with is the idea that someone with just common magic should be spending 50% of their time on their job and a further 10% on lay membership. Meanwhile a devotee spends the same amount of time and gets the specialised magic and a relationship with their deity. Doesn't look like much of a commitment to me.
>I find it interesting that you put a farmer's time commitment at 50%.
>Having grown up in a farming community, I agree that farming is a
>tremendously time intensive profession. IMG, I'd say that the farmer's
>time commitment is 60%, and that this 60% includes the magic that he
>uses, just as the modern farmer's 60% includes the various technical
>details (keeping up with equipment, chemicals, etc.) he must manage.
There'll be a fair bit of variation between farming communities. One of the reasons I pitched it low was the Heortling winter when there is little farm work that can be done.
>If the farmer belongs to a common religion, this time commitment
>includes dealing with the various magical resources that he uses for
>his job. If he is an initiate, it includes the magic from his "other
>sources" (if any) and from his deity - unless the deity isn't a
>farming deity, in which case 60% for profession plus 30% for initiate
>duties equals crazy dual-profession workaholic. If he's a devotee, his
>magic comes only from his deity, and if that deity isn't a farming
>deity, he isn't an effective farmer anymore.
The commonest example is your typical PC, the young lad (or lass) who wants to be a warrior. They've still got to do the farm work but have initiated into a fighting subcult because that's what they want to do. They do the minimum they can get away with at their job and spend all their spare time improving their fighting skills. They can't devote until they've impressed someone enough to be taken on as a warrior and relieved of most of their farming work.
Of course the majority of young warriors find training as warriors on top of a full time farming job interferes with their social life. So when they find a bride they switch subcults to Durev and settle down to farming.
>Since my numbers don't quite fit the book, I raise the time commitment
>to 70% to add the 10% for holy days, communal worship, etc. Or maybe I
>should drop the 60% in the last paragraph to 50%, and readjust all of
>the numbers above to include this 10%.
>
>In practice, I don't keep track of this time commitment, only putting
>time commitments into the game when they affect the game: "Today is
>your holy day, so you can't go off and do whatever you want - unless
>you want to suffer a penalty to your magic." In gaming practice, I
>haven't seen any players who want to play out 60% of their PC's time
>as job details (except for warriors and such, of course).
This seems like a difference of game style. Sure you don't want to play out the boring parts of any job but the jobs provide hooks to get your PCs into a story.
>If you substitute "disciple" for "devotee" in the message I quoted
>from, I agree with you. They seem crazy, and I haven't even described
>them to my current playing group. I believe that any given worshiper
>(communal, initiate, devotee) can be a crazy workaholic, but that
>should be up to the player, story, etc.
>
>This isn't meant to contradict with Greg's comment that everyone works
>all the time at their job (with which I agree), but is meant to
>address the use of time commitments to marginalize devotees.
Except I don't see it as marginalising devotees. If a player selects a devotee they are saying that they want or expect their story to be mainly about that type of activity. Could be a problem if you get players selecting incompatable gods to devote to.
-- Donald Oddy http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/
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