>
> Ok then, here goes:
>
> I look at several things in the Zorak Zoran cult as strange for a
> darkness god native to hell. He shares magical powers with Storm Bull
> (berzerk),
Strictly speaking, SB shares them with the originator of the power.
> Humakt (Sever Spirit)
I.e., the ultimate Death power. An Undeerworld power.
> and Fire Gods (salamanders).
Which we know he stole from a conquered god.
> He also
> animates corpses, which doesn't sound like something that trolls where
> doing in hell before the gods war.
maybe so, maybe not.
> Essentially all of his major powers
> (feats if you will) he shares in common with gods that are strangers
> to hell, but were visitors at one time or another.
I.e.- those newcomers acquired these from him from his home, from the Underworld.
> For example, Humakt
> went into the court of silence to gain his power over death, the uroxi
> go to hell for the berzerkergang power (recreating maybe the time when
> Urox was killed by the devil then brought back to life with new powers
> (berzerk)),
YGWV. From whence this data, that he acquired berserker powers after his death? For me, he always had these--they were revealed in his initiation.
Vivamort was once (according to some versions) tasked with
> the job of guarding Death in hell, and last but not least, Yelm (or
> portions theorof) entered hell when he died, bringing the fiery host
> with him.
>
> The second strange thing about him is this whole Hate and Vengeance
> aspect of this god. Hatred of what? Vengeance against whom?
I answered this already.
In his description he is said to be both a bane to Law AND Chaos.
Law and Chaos are not the distinctive opposites.
Law and Disorder.
Chaos and Cosmos.
He
> is part of the "cosmic balance".
?
> Sounds like a pretty powerful god,
He is. He is primal, an essential aspect of Being.
his origins as written do not suggest why he would be granted such
> importance
No one is granted anything in the Compromise. They will have already had, and manifested, those powers at the moment of Compromise, which locked them in forever.
in the compromise. A minor god
Please indicate to me where anything indicates, anywhere, that he was a minor entity?
> from hell who followed death
> into the surface world becomes a cosmic linchpin? Why? Unless he is
> more than that.
As I've said from the start, he is much more than that. And always has been.
The third strange thing, one that I could never figure out the reason
> for until now, was the Arkat thing. Arkat went on this whole massive
> quest to destroy Gbaji, going through successive cults that he thought
> would lead him to the power to destroy Gbaji. He started as a
> brithini, then hrestoli (which led to the court of silence quest),
> then he jumped over to Orlanth almost certainly, Humakt (he was said
> to be the son of humakt!) then finally he became a troll (what?!!) a
> karg's son, and finally, his most powerful incarnation was Zorak
> Zoran, and this is the cult that led him to victory
Or perhaps, "victory."
> over Gbaji. Why
> ZZ? What is the secret here. After suffering endless defeats at the
> hands of Nysalor, the cult of ZZ proved irresistible.
I thought the motivation of his descent, of his devolution, was apparant. Because Arkat decided he had to embrace the most primal, the most savage, the most inhuman trait to triumph over what he perceived as Chaos.
The secret was multi fold: Where did nysalor hold his court? Dorastor?
> Where did the Gbaji wars end? Dorastor. Where did the unholy trio do
> their deed? Dorastor.
>From whence this tidbit, that the Unholy Trio worked in dorastor? I believe
I've said it was in the farthest north, at the edge of the world where haos
meets cosmos, where the ancient Divine Order had already been weakened by so
many other conflicts, destructions and violence.
> Dorastor is the most chaotic part of genertela
> for a reason.
Most of which are, in fact, historical rather than mythical.
> It was all still fuzzy for me until I read a small passage in the
> Cults of Terror that talked about a god called Rashoran. Rashoran was
> said to come during the gods war, he wandered around teaching everyone
> not to fear Chaos, teaching several others this secret (presumably
> Humakt.... Chalana arrow... and other cults who don't automatically
> exclude chaos from their cult). He tried to teach this to the Unholy
> Trio, says one passage, and they killed him and tried to keep the
> secret to themselves.
The Rashoran story has many interpretations. Might the above be anoher way of saying that he was filled with mystic insight, and tried to share that with others?
> Presumably, they used his secret as the final
> ingredient for their plot to bring the devil into the world.
A presumption.
> Rashoran
> was slain, in dorastor, by the unholy trio. He of course, went to
> hell. Now we know who Rashoran is related to.... He is a part of the
> disintegrated Yelm, slain by orlanth and broken into many parts.
Holy Windstorm, from whence that data?
> Rashoran was Yelm's illuminated side,
Holy Earthcalm, from whence that data?
> when Yelm was killed he became
> illuminated,
Sorry: nonense. Gods don't "become" illuminated. They either are or are not, by virtue of their creation.
and that part of him manifested as Rashoran (and yes, the
> Red Goddess is also called Rashorana sometimes.... but that is another
> story). Rashoran tried to teach this to others, and then was abused by
> the Trio who stole his secret.
>
> Thus another part of Yelm was sent screaming into Hell, wounded,
> betrayed, ambushed, abused, murdered for gain. There he lay, as the
> first God to be killed, rotting and ashen in hell. A very pissed off
> Rashoran/Yelm sat there, fuming over his fate and his wounds, which
> were permanent. The trolls could not face him, they fled before his
> power (Fear spell) and they could not get rid of him. After all he was
> a problem from hell that had come back to roost (the escape of Death
> from Subere). So what do the trolls do? They worship him, they worship
> his hatred, and they follow him back to the surface world when Yelm is
> resurrected by Time, so that Rashoran can take his VENGEANCE upon the
> gods, both of chaos and law, that abused him so.
> Do you think that perhaps the trolls named him Zorak Zoran as a
> reference to his name, Ra Shoran? Do you think that maybe the
> similarity in the names is not coincidence?
By that measure, would we beleive that the ancient Terrestial Moon God named Sin was a manifestation of evil, of human wrong doing? Would we beleive that Thor was a god of aches? That Zeus was the god of places where animals are kept in captivity?
And this is why Arkat became Kingtroll Deathlord, he wanted to destroy
> Nysalor/Gbaji/Ostentalka, how better to do that then to do it from
> within, at the spot where he was destroyed in god time. Nysalor's
> shadow was perhaps Zorak Zoran, another piece of the puzzle that is Yelm.
Zorak Zoran is how trolls worship Yelm, the burning rage illuminated
> exiled part of Yelm, but Yelm none the less.
> The name, the central role of the cult in the catastrophic Gbjai wars,
> the fire powers, the hate and vengeance, the cosmic importance of the
> cult. It all fits together.
>
> What do you think?
That is a wonderful interpretation, and please accept my kudos for the
delicious creativity, paradox and delight in it.
It doesn't fit my understanding.
And this is the kind of thing that there may well be a Gloranthan cult or
phiosophy which beleives this.
But NIMG.
YGWV.
--
Greg Stafford
Game Designer
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