Peter Metcalfe wrote:
>>The Impression the Third Age book gives (to me at least) is that pretty
>>much the entire West uses the Abiding Book as its core text.
>
>This was once thought to be the case but no longer.
That's what I figured. Of course 1) I had not yet learned when I read that that virtually ALL texts in Glorantha are written, to some degree, "in universe" - meaning they are interpretations that could be wrong. 2) More and more I like the idea that from the outside looking in, it seems everyone uses "The Abiding Book" because so many of the core ideas/stories/etc are the same.
>I
>think the Stygian heresy might be the only one specifically mentioned as
>predating the Book.
The Stygians, the Loskalmi, the Carmanians and the Aeolians all predate the Book.
*nod* I know that. Can't remember if that's clear from G:IttHW.
So by your vision, the Loskalmi in the 3rd age don't use the Abiding Book?
>Caste Law is like feudalism - a construct created by historical Malkioni
>to make sense of the baffling and fragmentary accounts of the lives of
>their mythical predecessors.
Ahhh... Now this is ALSO an interesting idea. Caste is never "proclaimed" in any form of the religious texts? It rather is simply mentioned as is?
i.e. "For he was a soldier, and beholden to his lord." appears in the text (or is a good translation) and so scholars argue that people are supposed to be either soldiers and lords, and the former are beholden to the latter.
I would be very happy with this idea. I'd be ok with "there are 4 roles in the world" being fairly fixed, although I am ok even to have that vague.
>There are myths and legends of how Malkion created and ordained each
>of the castes _but_ he didn't call them that and there's no sense in
>the surviving myths of how the castes were meant to work with each
>other. The best account of Malkion ordained government is perhaps
>the Republic of Vani which was before the castes really came into
>being and hence envisages its inhabitants as social equals.
>
>The Malkioni do have a good idea of how Caste-run society is
>supposed to work by recourse to the traditions of the Old Republic
>of Zerendel. Embarrassingly for the believing Malkioni, the Old
>Republic was created by Malkion's sons after they excommunicated
>their pa and sent him into exile. So the best tradition of caste
>government that they have was never endorsed by Malkioni and
>hence suspect.
See, this is the kind of thing I'd love to actually SEE in the books somewhere.
>There are only four castes - ruler, magician, warrior and citizen.
Yeah, I've deduced that's what is really going on. As is human wont, people have than added all kinds of levels, sublevels, etc.
>In atheistic societies, the magicians are sorcerers whereas in
>believing societies, the Church occupies the magical caste.
>Knighthood is slightly more complicated. [...]
>Some religious movements have attempted to bring the religious
>tradition of knighthood by handwaving it away as bastardization
>or reinterpetation of the warrior caste (the exact words depends
>on their attitude towards Hrestol). This has proved less than
>successful in stamping the institution out, even in Rokari lands.
*nod* I get that idea.
>No. Some forms of magic are restricted to caste in Rokari
>lands but this is not the same thing as being inherited.
Sorry, I was being unclear. It is obvious that wizardry is flat out
something you can teach.
I was thinking restrictions. You aren't supposed to learn it if you
aren't already of caste.
>A yeoman can move to the city and learn a different magic for his job
without
>offending against caste.
I thought outside of orders and little magic (which is considered not quite right) people in the West don't have magic based on job?
Regardless, if one of your castes is "magical" then in a world like Glorantha, you have to decide what magic counts as that "magical" caste and whether specific magics are caste breaking or not.
>Women have their own caste.
I would think the definition of this would depend on the society. If all Malkion says on the matter is "wife and helpmeet" then it is hard to say. And if caste is a system made up later to explain roles, the whole "women are their own caste" thing can be a really wrong choice made ages ago.
>In certain circumstances, a woman
>can transmit her father's caste to that of her son (the best example
>of this was Arkat who was raised as a soldier in Brithos because
>that was the caste of his maternal grandfather)
.*nod*
Thanks, this was helpful.
More and more, I like viewing it as "Everyone knows there are 4 castes, and their basic roles are ruler, magician, warrior, citizen." Each society has then made up its own interpretation of:
From that, I can make all kinds of versions of the society. I am also going to say that whatever arguments the Abiding Book appeared to settle, it had nothing to do with caste, and so couldn't answer that question/clear that up.
LC
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