Re: Changed magic in 2nd and 3rd Age from Richard Hayes on 2009-06-07 (World of Glorantha)

From: Richard Hayes <richard_hayes29_at_5YsaFhvmjuwA5wZ0GqYSap8scW8yeGbmoBuJHpQZH4-aKxxn_P4zzGHv-H5S>
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 23:22:07 +0000 (GMT)

I don't disagree with what Donald and Peter said below, but (at the risk of bringing something like game mechanics into this group), isn't there also a more basic change.
Someone said earlier that what MRQ calls 'Rune Magic' --the idea of doing magic by physically possessing and becoming attuned to Runes in order to produce particular magical effects-- stopped working at/near the end of the Second Age?
What is the source for this? If this is true, presumably it was something to do with the fall of the God Learners?
Malkioinsm is affected by the fall of the Godlearners too, because the authority of the Abiding Book is diminished (although iirc earlier discussions about the fate of the Abiding Book after the fall of the Godlearners suggested that many churches still used many passages, rituals and spells from the Abiding Book, but called them something else).
Secondly didn't Malkionism (Hrestoli or Rokari) often became more monotheistic after the fall of the Godlearners? Was this a reaction against Godlearnerism (that staying away from the visble gods removed some of the temptations to which the Godlearners had succumbed) or, more prosaically, a consequence of losing the Godlearners' 'road map' (which repackaged a necessity as a virtue)? Or a bit of both?
Thirdly is there still a form of folk magic in the 'Barbarian Belt' in the Third Age (like what RQ3 called 'spirit magic' and RQ2 called 'battle magic'), which is learned through one's cult without, for the most part, being cult-specific?
If it still exists (and if it is still standardised like the old RQ magic was), is this standardisation (like its linguistic counterpart, Tradetalk?) something of a Godlearner construct (but one that people no longer talk about in those terms)?
If so, do the symbols it uses reflect the Godlearners' partial standardisation of the appearance of the Runes?

Richard Hayes

Subject: Re: Changed magic in 2nd and 3rd Age To: WorldofGlorantha_at_yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 7 June, 2009, 2:14 PM

In message <4A2B5018.1090709_at_cMy_KwPxho8kCFlyItdw6zRdtVwkoqQV9oF_yCD4WiiMin6imKy4LTSqThnm-Wx6QOwqFIMD-qZ63WcodftKR3z8kjE.yahoo.invalid> L C writes:
>Peter Metcalfe wrote:

> >It's not a matter of duplicating their magic, it's more like
> >rebuilding their network. Consider two places on the
> >hero-plane. Normally it is quite difficult to get from one
> >place to the other. But the God Learners build a great
> >road which makes the journey far easier. Now their
> >magicians are more powerful for the same amount of
> >study.
>
>Sure, as far as messing about in the Hero Plane and HeroQuesting and
>stuff. But that doesn't seem to apply to their sorcery and spells
>proper, does it?

A spell involves using an essence source. To get access to that involves HQing. I'm not keen on Peter's analogy of road building. To my mind it is more like mapmaking. The God Learners knew many routes around the Hero Plane and a sorcerer could get magic by following those routes. Without those maps it takes far longer and is far more dangerous to get the same magic.

The Lunars are doing something similar in the 3rd Age with the College of Magic.

>Certainly something I've seen implied. Does this mean the modes of
>worship and type of magic you get changed?
>Glorantha has struck me for the most part as a deeply conservative
>world, where people can't really change their modes of magic or they get
>struck down by the universe and/or chaos.
>Do it as your ancestors do or you are basically risking terrible
>retribution. So I would think theism didn't change, or that most of the
>2nd Age involved people doing things that were wrong and when the
>universe course corrected, it went back to as it *should* be.
>
>I'm not sure I agree with that, but it has been the impression.

That is a culture specific view. Certainly the Heortlings believe this and probably others do but that's no basis for the assumption that all theists do. The only culture we know that disagrees is the Lunar one. They believe that change is good and the risks can be managed.

I would suggest that the truth is a lot fuzzier than that. Magic does change, new feats are discovered, new spirits are found, new spells invented. Where those fit reasonably well they remain and eventually become part of the tradition. Of course humans being humans they make mistakes, get too arrogant, etc. The magic blows up in their faces and the survivors blame the experimenters for defying the gods.

As an example in the 3rd Age we have the Vingan feat of 'Mile Javlin Throw'. IMG this was invented by a Vingan mercenary in the 2nd Age who was fighting for the God Learners. She copied some God Learner magic which threw massive spears designed to shoot down dragons (or dragon like flying creatures).

-- 
Donald Oddy
http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/


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