On 15/02/2013, at 4:21 PM, Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_hvpkq4zTVQHUg4BAKEmERAyCkuSOiNe99wsDK9vaNYIBGhKVBm3WTGQ5RxfVL7SRRMjd0A6wRceET1DceKBkPjm7.yahoo.invalid> wrote:
> On 2/14/2013 12:39 AM, Nils Weinander wrote:
>
>> In the Austerity War, Darja Danad was a pure mystic. Conditions >> were so awful that his mystic defense kicked in all the time, >> looking an awful lot like magic. Those who came after him were >> less pure, and the general situation improved somewhat, so they >> used magic to emulate what the master had done as side effects >> of said mystic defense.
Absolutely. Especially as it doesn't appear to reflect the reality of much of what Darja Danad did (engaged in physical combat a lot, trained guerilla resistance groups in combat skills, founded a martial arts school, etc). He gained his powers apparently in a classic mystic fashion, by prolonged meditation, but that is only a small part of his story. Whats more the 'his mystic defences kicked in' as a characterisation of his magic seems to rather ignore those parts of his story that involve teaching the use of mystic techniques to deliberately beat people to death with sticks, or Darja Danad himself striking Janadi dead with a bare handed blow, and then killing every one else on the boat. That really doesn't sound all that defensive. Or meditative.
> If I was doing Kabalt as a cult for HQ2, I would look not on the
> philosophy but on the look and feel of how they acquire and do their
> magic. The answer is *not* "meditate for hours and hours" because
> gloranthans do that all over and do not get the Kabalt magic (in Prax -
> the retired priests of the Sun Dome, in Dragon Pass - the Stormwalkers
> of the Old Wind Temple).
What you meditate on is significant. Not all meditative practices are the same, or have the same goal, just the same as not all veneration or sacrificial practices are the same or have the same goal. Though the idea that meditation is an indication of mystic practice is an interesting one. Certainly, the Sun Dome has an ancient association with the mystic cult of Daysenarus, and the tradition of meditative retirement is perhaps one of the last links to that. In any case Darja Danad's Kabalt practice is clearly explained to be not simple meditation anyway - it appears to be Sivolic practice, basically, combining meditation with diet, hygiene, and physical practice to be healthy, strong and tough.
> If they are taught how to wield Kabalt by
> their masters at the Dojo than the cult is best described as a sorcerous
> one. If they undergo duels with the spiritual masters of Kabalt and are
> touched in some mysterious way as a result, then the cult is animist.
> If they worship Kabalt as a god then its theistic.
Mysticism and meditation are not synonyms, and sitting still and meditating are not synonyms either. I do not think regarding the Darja Danad/Kabalt tradition as sorcerous, animist, or divine is likely. It is a martial arts school, teaching the combination of physical movements and other physical regimens with mystic practice, derived from the Mashunasen school but combining other (presumably Sivolic) practices. It is certainly possible to combine Kabalt practice with theism, though - it is not by worshipping Kabalt, but by worshipping a god that has obtained Kabalt, as explained in the Hensarava story.
> There's only one effect of Kabalt that we are actually given and that's
> when Darja Danad hit a captive with a stick and the man whimpered
> (Revealed Mythologies p69).
I think that is an incorrect interpretation. In fact, directly contrary to the intended meaning - when Darja Danad hits the man with a stick, and he doesn't die, he is demonstrating that he is not using Kabalt magic (as he is explaining as he does it). A captive whimpering when hit with a stick by his captor is perfectly natural and not remarkable, and not a magical effect. The Kabalt magic is that mentioned directly prior - when in combat, Darja Danad and his people are able to kill their attackers with a single touch of their sticks (I think a little poetic licence here - a single blow). Killing with one blow of a stick here (against armed and armoured warriors, such as Heen the Iron Man) is a magical effect.
> Rather than to try and craft a mystical
> rulesect, all that needs to be done is to say "Kabalt is ineffective
> when used against a worshipper of the Avanparloth or their supporters".
> That's no different from the cult rules stipulating how a worshipper may
> use the magic of a given rune.
What Darja Danad is demonstrating is that the Kabalt magic is not used for killing helpless captives, but used only in combat. There is no difference in worship between those he kills and those he does not, they are members of the exact same group - antigod worshippers - the difference is that he kills those who oppose him in combat, but only enslaves those who surrender and grants them their lives.
I think their later vow to leave intact the real natives of the islands is a political choice, not a magical one.
Cheers
David
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