Loads of Stuff

From: buserian_at_juno.com <buserian>
Date: Tue Jan 17 16:52:25 2006

Hey all,

> Lots of intersteing stuff. We must close the list down more often :-)

I was thinking the exact same thing.
> > Why doesn't Sir Ethilrist go after Hungry Jack, rather than a Dragon?
> > all, he defeated it in the first place.
> That would make sense, but still give the same problems of units off
> the board.

I disagree with the Sir Ethilrist thing completely -- how the hell is he supposed to bring back a 10,000 lb. pumpkin? I am pretty sure a dragon was put into the rules because nothing else is big enough to bring it back.

> > > - ironhoof needs a shaman counter or something
> >
> > I'm not sure if they are powerful enough for a shaman. Magic
> > certainly.
> Yes, I don't think they justify a sham couner either, perhaps some
disembodied spirit allies
> would give them a distinctive plus (is suitable spirits could be
thought os).

Well, I think they could warrant a shaman counter -- stats don't have to be exact, and they certainly wouldn't get a soul wind, but they should have something equivalent. My thought, however, was to change the FHQ to be a shaman, and make the hero be the Luminous Stallion Chief or whatever his name is. But that isn't quite right, mythically, so I would just add a weaker shaman.

> > > I think that one of the Random Events options should be "Chaos
> > > You take every single chaotic unit available to you, from every
game you
> > > have, take out the ones that are location restricted (like Hydra,
> > > like Cwim), pick one or two location-specific ones at random to add
> > > in, then have every single player draw one of the Chaos units from
a cup,
> > > and all of those Chaos units are placed randomly in Snake-Pipe
Hollow. I
> > > mean, come on -- having Cwim, Thed, the Hydra, Hungry Jack, and the
> > > Crimson Bat all appear in SPH at once, what's not to love? :)
> :-)
> Although I think having allyable chaos is nicer, an explosion could
also be in the RET.
> Disagree that the bat should be part of it though.

I was joking. :)
> > The Random Events Tables need some serious work - I looked at them
again and
> > they are crap. The same stuff over and over again.
> Have you seen the RET which we put together for NG? Gloriously
overcomplex & the result
> of lots of back and forth argui..er I mean discussion on this list.
Steve has just posted it on
> boardgamegeek.

I was going to mention that at some point, really I was. I also put up the complete 2nd edition battalia and the Random Holy Places table. (All in nice PDF format.) I plan to put some stuff up for Dragon Pass as well, the Random Locations Table (which I want to fix, I think it is broken) and the battalia. But, that would require actually typing up the battalia, which I do not have the time or energy to do, and all it would do is exascerbate my recently-exascerbated carpal tunnel.

> > > Yes, I'd like a change of this nature as well. Once an independent
> > > allied, can't you continue to burn diplomacy points to try to bribe
> > > away or ensure no one else does? What I would do would be to make
> > > this IS the rule, then give certain events or Random Events a point
> > > for appropriate independents. Thus, if you ally with a Chaos entity
> > > any kind, you get -X DPs wih the Exiles, the Beast-men, etc. If a
> > > city is sacked, that's an automatic -20 DPs; any lesser holding of
> > > nation sacked is -10 DPs; etc.
> >
> > That's right. That's exactly how it should work. If you get the Sun
> > and then ally Cragspider, you'd expect problems. Except than Sun
> > aren't allied through DP, or are they? I forget.

No, they're not, but that is another thing I'd change. I want to add a magician (with spirit) and unit of archers to them anyway, so they could be a 10 DP advantage independent. (I would definitely remove Androgeous from the DP-allied independents -- 10 DP for a superhero! Man, I never thought that through, or I'd get him/her every single time, and damn quick, too.)
> > > Or start with different DP targets for each side? eg it takes more
dps for
> > > the exiles to ally with
> > > lunar rather than sartar? Although, whilst this came to mind as a
> > > e.g. thinking about
> > > recent tarsh supplements, maybe going with the Lunars is
> > > more understandable as an option
> > > for the exiles. At least I can now see the dynamics at work a bit
better :
> > > look, we're starving & they have corn.
> >
> > What you would do, as I did in AiP, is assign each side some starting
> > So, the Lunars start off with 20 DPs for the Sables, the Sartarites
get 10DPs
> > for the Exiles and so on.
> I guess starting with some preallocated DPs is equivalent to having
different target numbers
> for each side.

I think that, as a general RULE, having different targets is simpler. BUT, various scenarios could start with the "bonus" DPs. I would only do one or the other, though, not both.

> > > I would like to see more minor spirits available for alliance.
Generally at
> > > specific sites like
> > > TS, and the rules on-line for Balazar (after all DP ain't Prax).
> > > only designated animist
> > > units have the know how to attempt these alliances eg certain
magicians for
> > > sartar, maybe
> > > thunder delta for lunars (as someone mentioned earlier they could
be a bit
> > > less bland).
> >
> > I thought of having the Six Sisters as a Holy Place, maybe with Wild
> > and the place where Sorana Tor pops up in KoS, where Gradfather
Mortal popped
> > his clogs. The problem is deciding where they should be and which
> > should be available.

Um, I don't think we want Arachne Solar showing up in a game of DP, though. :) But, it could be a place to get the Grandmother of Spiders (from Nomad Gods). Since she is available in Shadows Dance, too -- I like the idea that that single counter has a specific place to appear in each of the boardgames, has a nice feel to it.

But, having a specific spirit available at each place can be problematic. I guess in DP, we are really talking about two types of spirit -- place spirits and random spirits. Random spirits, like Nomad Gods, are what I was talking about, and I still like the idea. Place spirits, like Spirit of Movement, are the specific ones that everyone has named, however (INCLUDING ME), so I guess they would just be allied in the normal fashion. Some of them, like Chalk Man, would have limited use outside their home area, however. Something to consider -- Chalk Man might be powerful enough to include, but is there anything he can do for someone that would last outside his hex? If not, no point in adding him.

Treasures are another area I'd like to see expanded -- adding 12 or 15 treasures to the game.

> > Can any unit summon spirits? In NG I seem to recall someone sitting
> > Tribe units all over the board, in as many Oases as possible, to
churn out
> > the spirits.
> In NG, pretty much any unit can. But all the Praxian units are
practicing animists with clan
> level shaman etc. Most Dpers are not animists. I figured for spirits
which are summoned as
> oppossed to emissaried only animists or perhaps "magicians" would know
how to peform the
> ceremony.

As I said in another message, the word "animist" has no place in this discussion. Many of the "spirits" available in Dragon Pass would actually be gods, and the Sartarite "shaman" would actually be a master of magic, and not an animist at all. (Or maybe they'd have a "shaman", identical in stats, but actually theist in nature.) The key is how something works in the rules, not in Glorantha.

In that respect, ANYONE can summon "spirits". But, the rule in Nomad Gods has long been questioned and criticized, rightfully, because it turns many games into spirit games by the middle. I'd prefer to change the rule so that only a shaman, magician, master of magic, or certain special units could summon spirits, not just the common clans.

> > > I worked out a scenario to play through the Tarsh Civil War, which
I called
> > >
> > > "Careless Tork Costs Lives" (a bad pun on King Orios marching into
Tork and
> > > releasing the horde) which was a three player scenario. I've never
played it
> > > through with anyone else, but it was in the Raider's Digest 1.
> >
> > Was it? I'll have to try and find it.
> Someone suggested putting this on-line again recently. Does anyone
still have the files? I
> might still have a paper copy I could copy and send otherwise. It was a
little booklet which
> we made for Convulsion in 2000.

I might have the files archived, I think they were sent to me at some point. But all my Glorantha files, except the Lords of Fate stuff, are archived onto CD.
> > > I think the worst area of the map is the corner aropund Pavis & BR.
> > > Sun Domers (too
> > > slow to be useful in NG, unlike DP) & spirit of Pavis is alied
there is
> > > nothing to do here. It
> > > should be possible to gain normal spirit allies at P&BR and
possibly Sun
> > > Dome once the
> > > original alliances are made.
> >
> > Probably, I'd go along with that. Especially as we now know, through
> > that Mani's Fort, in the Rubble, is a proper Oases and that Sun Dome
sits on
> > Sun Hawk's Nest, so they should be more powerful.

Actually, we do NOT "know" this -- it is one fan author's opinion, not canon. I personally reject much of the P&BRC material, especially because I was along for the ride at various times when the material was being created, and I know a lot of stuff that Greg questioned or rejected was retained by Ian.

And again, it is a question of scale. Certainly, in games where the Spirits of Pavis are not available, the Rubble ought to act as a normal altar/holy place.



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