Re: Using Chaos

From: <buserian>
Date: Wed May 10 06:26:37 2006

Howdy All,

I had planned to refrain from further comment, but:

On Tue, 9 May 2006 05:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Chris Lemens <> writes:

> I think you will find variety in Praxian approaches
> and a continuum of choices. For example, no one would
> go out of his way to scare out a group of broos that
> set up an ambush for the clan chasing yours. OTOH, no
> one is going to allow broos to reproduce in his own
> herd for the sake of growing more soldiers. There will
> be conflict between Bullmen who want to kill the chaos
> now and those who want to drive it against their enemies.

There is a VERY big difference between scaring out a group of broos and

  1. _Hiring_ broos and/or working with them as allies.
  2. _Worshipping_ a foul Chaos entity like Thed or Malia.

I submit that the Praxian mythos and religion _demand_ that a person who actually _worships_ Malia or Thed directly, to the point of learning their magic or sacrificing POW to them or whatever, is no longer part of the Way of Waha, and thus can no longer worship Waha, Eiritha, Storm Bull, etc.

You can't have it both ways -- either you hate Chaos, or you ally with Chaos. There is no "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" when it comes to Chaos. This is not just a moral choice -- it is a matter of life and existence in Glorantha. If the simple act of commiting rape can transform a human into a broo, as has been stated (or at least implied) in past publications, then there is NOTHING simple about using Chaos as a tool. No one in Glorantha knows this better than the Praxians, IMO.

> > From: Simon Phipp <>
> > A bit off-topic, but using Chaos to defeat your
> enemies is a bit of a win-win situation. Your enemies
> will kill some of the chaos (definitely a WIN) and the
> chaos will kill some of your enemies (another WIN). If
> you have to use Malia to infect others with diseases,
> then so be it, as long as the Oases get cleaned up
> afterwards, no harm has really been done.

Except that you can't simply "clean up" the oases -- all of the sources make it clear that cleansing a Chaos taint from anything is nearly impossible, and is very clearly impossible without actually utterly destroying the tainted object. The casual, even intentional, use of Chaos can't be so glibly justified, IMO.

Also, if you use Chaos against your enemy, the chance that every single Chaos thing will be utterly annihilated is as unlikely as the elves of the Pavis Garden being able to kill every Rubble Troll with their arrows if they all attacked at once. And if even one broo escapes, then it is YOUR OWN FAULT when your herds and your women and your sons all die from broobirth in a couple of seasons. Would ANY Praxian risk that? More to the point, would any Waha chieftain risk it? Cults of Prax (IIRC, or was it Cults of Terror?) specifically stated that only the Tribal Khan could authorize the worship of various Chaos entities.

> > Hmm. I see the ascendence of that view happening with certain leaders
> > certain times. Just like here there's always a "means versus ends"
> > issue, almost always very polarised because of practicalities, I
> > it happens on the plaines as well. Some tribal chiefs go one way and
> > some the other. Those looking at 'ends' can accept your argument and
> > Malia et al. while the others

Again, this works if Chaos is just "Evil". But if Chaos is an extra-worldly, annihilistic, corrupting force that all of the world agrees to hate and destroy no matter the cost to anyone, then these arguments all fall short. Sure, Praxians will make use of "evil" against their enemies, who are all evil as well. But they won't so blithely use Chaos, not in a million years, not though the hordes of the Monster Men from the east overran all of the Wastes and killed every herd beast. Eiritha and Storm Bull must still live, and they cannot do that if Chaos is allowed to run free.

But, as I said, YGWV. :)



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