Re: Bad Sandy

From: Sandy Petersen <sandyp_at_idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 16 Nov 94 06:17:34 GMT


Nick Eden
>But where do social constructs come from? I've always thought that
>the reason that we have toboos about sleeping with our sisters is
>that over the years this has been shown to be a bad thing, leading
>to stupid and deformed children.

        It is unclear where this taboo comes from. It is basically universal among humans (even in cases where it is violated, like the Pharaohs, it is obviously being violated at least partly to symbolize the gulf between kings & peasantry). If you believe in an objective morality, then that's probably where it comes from (i.e., God). I, personally, am content with this. However, this doesn't mean there aren't other, potent, evolutionary reasons for this taboo. However, it clearly is NOT the result of the "fact" that incest kids are mongoloid, because if this was the case, then many other animals would have evolved such taboos. It's clearly the result of something unique to humans. My suggestion is that incest causes psychological harm to us during our lengthy developmental period. Hence, families practicing incest tended to die out, because they became dysfunctional. Exogamous families survived.

        Obviously a rule against incest exists in all Gloranthan human societies (but perhaps not non-humans). The extent of this rule of course varies from society to society.

        The Sartarites, embroiled in kinship disputes and organizations, probably have a very legalistic, carefully figured incest taboo system. Something like if you have the same last name you can't marry, but if your last name is different you can only intermarry if you share no common grandparent.

        The Doraddi, of course, stick to their cumbersome lineage rules which, on rare occasions, technically do permit the intermarry of brother and sister. Such a marriage is generally considered repugnant, but legal, much as it's repugnant but legal to marry your father's divorced second wife (not your mother).

        Among the Kralori, it is my belief that all marriages must be approved by the local mandarin (normally a rubber-stamp decision). Every six years, the mandarin assembles all local people who are over the age of 24 and not yet married, and pairs them off, marrying them willy-nilly. "Excess" men are assigned to the army. "Excess" women must become the mandarin's own concubines (strong encouragement for the mandarin to seek out husbands for them before the six-year limit rolls around!).

?? Joerg: what does Uroxe mean? Does it mean Aurochs? Or summat else?

Steven Barnes:
>Suppose a shaman grabs the spirit of a newly-slain human, and
>binds it into his fetch. What kind of spirit is it?

        C'mon, Steven, gimme a hard one. Answer: 'Tis a ghost -- it can cast spells, engage in spirit combat, and be bound into a site.

David Cake:
>[can Shamans in Pamalt's cult be acolytes, or not?]

        Hokay, here is my solution. The Pamalt cult has five categories of membership: Initiate, Shaman, Acolyte, and Chieftain. So far so good.

        I have instituted a general rule in my campaign that shamans belonging to cults can ONLY sacrifice for cult special Rune magic, usually including Worship [my favorite god]. Of course, pseudo-cults such as Ancestor Worship only _have_ special spells, so are beyond the pale.

        I move that Shamans of Pamalt be allowed to sacrifice for Pamalt's special Rune spells only. And that they NOT be acolytes, but their own category of membership, which is considered equal in status to acolytehood. Howzat?

Time for a Pamalt Story

Qualyorni, the Cold One, came from the north, bringing her blanket of ice, and her breath of fog. Artmal, Emperor of Perfection, went to meet her, and was crippled forever. Who honors Artmal nowadays?

        The people leapt and jumped nervously. "What will we do? No one can conquer the Cold One!"

        They turned to Lodril. "Oh, grandfather! You saved us from the Smother Jungle and the Poison Sea! Save us from the Cold One!"

        Lodril peered through his beard. "I am old, so old. And my mountains will not hold back the Cold One. She thrives in the heights. But I will try to help." And he made the first spear.

	"Oh, grandfather! Take the spear and strike the Cold One!"
	"Alas, my grandsons and granddaughters. I am old, so old."
	The people scampered like crickets. "What will we do? Who  
will use the Spear? Sikkanos, will you use it?"
	Sikkanos looked at the spear with lust in his eyes. He wanted  
the spear. But he feared fighting the Cold One more. "Give me the spear." he said. "I am a good fighter. But I will not fight the Cold One. Follow me and we will hide in the desolation. We can use the spear to stay alive. Come, flee with me."
	But the people would not flee. "Jelmre, can you save us?"
	Jelmre was abashed. "I am too small to even pick up the  
spear. How can I save us?"
	The people moaned and wailed. "Hoolar, can you save us?"
	Hoolar was sad. "I am no warrior. If you gave me the spear,  
the Cold One would beat me just the same, and take the spear away. Then where would we be?"

        The people asked their old enemy, the Smother Jungle. "Save us, Smother Jungle! Stop the Cold One."

        But Smother Jungle was asleep and could not answer.

        And finally Pamalt came forward. "Someone MUST fight the Cold One. I am no warrior. I am afraid of the Cold One. But no one else will do it. I can pick up the spear, and I will fight."

        Pamalt fought the Cold One, and he was helped by Hoolar and Jelmre, but Sikkanos ran and hid in the desolation. He did not help. The spear was so mighty that it struck the Cold One to the ground, and she could not get up again. Instead, she bled blackness into the earth and crawled away. "Do not hit me again." she said. "I will stay in my own country." And Pamalt agreed.

(1) But then the Cold One's Mother came. And her Grandmother. And her monster-brother and sister.(2) The night monsters said, "Pamalt, you have crippled our daughter-sister. Now we will cripple you."

        Pamalt said, "Let us not fight about this. If I did wrong, I should be punished. If I did well, I should be rewarded."

        The night monsters were puzzled, but agreed to let the Council of the Gods adjudge Pamalt's deeds (3). They were not afraid of this, because their grandmother's sister was part of the Council, and Pamalt had no friends there. (4) The night monsters said, "Pamalt has crippled our daughter-sister. We demand that he be crippled in payment."

        Aleshmara spoke for her son-in-law. "The Cold One was evil. He deserved his punishment."

        The night monsters said, "We are not here to judge the Cold One, but Pamalt."

        The Council of the Gods agreed. "The Cold One was crippled. This is true enough. What matter if she was bad? Bring her to trial if this be true, but do not defend your actions thereby."

        Faranar spoke for her husband. "Pamalt had no choice. He had to fight the Cold One or all the land would be blasted."

        The night monsters said, "This is not true. The Cold One was just bringing winter to the land. We all know winter is good."

        The Council of the Gods agreed. "The Cold One would have changed your land. What of that? All lands are being changed nowadays."

        Pamalt finally spoke. "I say that the Cold One was right. I say that the Cold One was justified in all her actions."

        The night monsters muttered among themselves. Then they said, "That is right. Our daughter-sister was good and true. Now, we demand vengeance."

        Then Pamalt said, "The Cold One crippled Artmal. Was this fair?"

        "Yes, yes," said the night monsters.

        So Pamalt said, "I acted just like the Cold One. He crippled an enemy. And I crippled an enemy. Both of us were fair."

        The Council of the Gods gnashed its teeth, but agreed that Pamalt was right. The night monsters howled and mourned for their crippled sister.

        And Pamalt never went to the Council of the Gods again.

(1) This second part of the story is very peculiar. It's hard to imagine the troll gods agreeing to a formal Doraddi-style trial, in a potent Doraddi example that might by itself does not make right, even when gods are fighting for their life.
(2) The Mother is presumably Kyger Litor, and the Grandmother Subere. the monster-brother and sister are probably Zorak Zoran and Xiola Umbar.
(3) the Council of the Gods seems to be a rare Doraddi reference to the Celestial Court.

(4) Presumably the night monsters' "grandmother's sister" was Dame Darkness, and the fact that Pamalt had no friends there is, to the Doraddi, evidence that the Council was ultimately useless.


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