Re: spirits

From: David Cake <davidc_at_cs.uwa.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 16:26:20 +0800


A couple of replies to Colin Watson on the subject of spirits

>It's surpirising there aren't more mutually cooperative relationships
>between shamans and spirits. Y'know, feed it some MP each day and it stays
>around without having to be Bound, or somethin'. Or is this how a fetch is
>meant to hold spirits, through cooperation rather than force?
>

        In private discussion, Joerg and I have pretty much come to the conclusion that there must be more cooperative relatioships between shamans and spirits, and determined that this is only one of the many things that should be determined for shamans. Also divine command spells (especially 'Command cult spirit') probably do not take the form of just magical compulsion, but may rely on the spirits loyalty to the god and cult.

        Personally, I think a fetch does hold spirits pretty much through force. But I also feel that shamans probably have a few other spirits (or even large numbers of spirits) that can be asked to perform minor services. Two examples of placating spirits rather than binding them are Ancestor Worshippers getting the ancestors on side by Gift Pow and Gift Spell, and the Cannibal Cult shamans feeding the Hungry Ghosts.

>Steven E Barnes wondered what would happen if a Shaman held the spirit
>of newly-slain human in his fetch.
>
>A couple of folk understandably suggested that the spirit is a Ghost with
>the abilities thereof. But consider this: traditionally ghosts are capable
>of initiating spirit combat and are able to posess bodies of the living. Why
>don't the spirits of the newly-slain attack their killers to posess them? Or
>is this a common practice?
>

        Most importantly, when your spirit leaves its body, it is then on the spirit plane, and is neither visible or capable of directly interacting with the mundane plane. Conceivably casting Visibility could overcome this.

        Of course, you probably have more important things to think about, and you are probably also in shock/ unconscious.

        And then, of course, there are the chaotics that do attack their killers in spirit combat. This, of course, proves nothing.

>
>It could be that they become Ghosts if they hang around long enough for
>their STR DEX & CON to dissolve; but most choose instead to toddle off into the
>afterlife before then.
>

        Sorry, but I too reject the theory that spirits have physical attributes (well, maybe some have residual attributes as a special ability).

        It is true that most spirits travel into the after life rather than become a Ghost. To me, the difference between a ghost and a spirit of the dead is where they are - a ghost is a spirit of the dead that lives on the mundane plane for some reason, rather than the spirit plane.  

>
>Can you force such a spirit to cast its spells for you (without releasing it)
>or is this the preserve of Magic Spirits?
>

        I think that they can cast their spells for you.

        Cheers
                Dave



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