Writeups in Gods of Glorantha and similarities of names, perhaps? Perhaps you are privy to some info the rest of us don't have? I do not believe that Dendara is worshipped for being the Sun Gods Wife. Dendara is worshipped for being the Earth Goddess. Her marriage to the Sun is only a social construct.
>> IMO the two cults would be as different as Japanese and Tibetian
>> Buddhism and only God Learners would see the resemblance if there had
>> been no transplantation since the time you suggest.
>Yes. That *is* the current position, isn't it?
Is it? They have the same basic God Learner form in GoG and are known by the same name *despite* >Yelm< being called Somash in Teshnos and >Ernalda< called the Great Green Lady in Ralios. For the record, I do acknowlege the two lands do have some differences in Dendara worship. But the worship of Dendara in both lands is much more similar in form than Yelm. I don't think the latter is acknowleged as Dendara's husband in Kralorela going instead for Nil's name of Ti Shang (sp?)...
>The identification of Pelorian Dendara with the Kralori Goodwife
>Goddess was made, surely, by the God Learners.
Que? Kralori Goodwife Goddess? She is *primarily* a Farmers Goddess as far as I know. Sheng may have made her Wife of Yu-Kargzant in both Peloria (and maybe Kralorela), but I do not see the God Learners being around at the time.
>They did see a resemblance. They could not
>have seen the effects of Sheng Seleris' alleged (unnecessary, implausible)
>manipulation, as by the Third and Fourth Wanes the God Learners were all DEAD.
>(And a Good Thing Too).
>> My suggestion is Sheng transplanted the Kralorelan Farmers Goddess ...
>> because the resulting manifestations of >Gorgorma< would be more
>> controllable
>It is in Gorgorma's nature *not* to be controlled. There are a hell of a
>lot of Pelorian farmers. And Sheng Seleris knew sweet f.a. about farming.
And it is in Malia's best interests not to be propitiated. Yet such rites are apparently effective for some strange reason despite the celebrants knowing next to nothing about disease control...
>Think in evolutionary terms for a minute. Given two rebellious cults, one
>susceptible to control by the authorities, the other not, which of them will
>survive longer? Peter proposes that a new, easily-crushed rebellion is likely
>to (1) be introduced by the overlords and (2) replace the more viable native
>form.
Think of degrees of freedom. I proposed that the nature of the outbreak was _determined_ by the _way_ in which the _farmer goddess_ (ie Dendara) was _worshipped_. Thus if Sheng controlled the latter, something which he was capable of doing, then he could have easily determined the course of the former _regardless_ of the effectiveness of Gorgorma.
>IF Sheng suppressed Pelorian rebellions by Kralori methods, it is surely
>FAR MORE LIKELY that he did this by the usual HeroQuester's way: using
>secret knowledge from *outside* a given myth's context.
Heroquesting, Smeroquesting. And what is this Secret Knowledge of Sheng's? Objective Insights? New ways to look at the world? What better than the knowlege that Gorgorma is actually Dendara?
>Knowing already
>how to suppress Kralori revolts, he would apply the same technique to
>Pelorian revolts: a "surprise attack" from an unexpected direction.
And controlling the worship of Dendara is *not* a suprise attack upon Gorgorma from an unforeseen direction?
>He would
>NOT have to change the whole cultus and belief-structure of the local
>Earth religion to fool farmers into thinking, "Oh yes, we must be
>vulnerable to this guy."
And the farmers were very happy to worship the EWF? I am talking about religious change imposed from above not voluntarily adoption of rites...
>> This does suppose that Sheng Seleris had subjugated a potion of
>> Kralorela.
>Inter alia.
>This theory is NOT NECESSARY.
This is of course completely true. We can go back to my original theory that Dendara was the Sun God's Wife. This however looks too much like a God Learner interpolation for anybody's taste. Sandy put forward the reasonable hypothesis that Dendara was introduced from Kralorela. Apart from the objections I had (which I'm sure he can overcome) this would not fulfill your criterion because it reduces diversity. And if you like Sandy's thesis, then what is to prevent mine?
>It reinforces God Learnerism by assuming there are
>real, current, alarming similarities between two major deities, about one
>of whom we know bugger all.
bugger all being a good description of the writeup in GoG. I would have prefered something with more meat but Greg and Sandy were pressed for space...
>If Pelorian Dendara and Kralori <What's-Her-Name> are
>both "The Good Wife of the Sun God", most God Learners would jump immediately
>onto the bandwagon and look no further. After all, they thrive on simple
>parallels and the wholesale cleaning up (or glossing over) of mythological
>grey areas. (The bastards).
FYI, the Kralori goddess is *called* Dendara (Gog, G:CotHW). Godunya recognizes her by that name. She isn't translated like say Faranar or Cronisper. I'm sorry but that's how it is. I would normally you know blame this on them God learners but they never mucked around in Peloria.
>What do we gain by all this? Nothing useful that I can see: a *less* diverse
>and *less* plausible Glorantha, is all. Please, please stop it.
Less diverse? Surely religions were transplanted in the RW. Let see, Buddhism was transmitted to China and Japan. Islam was transmitted to Africa and Indonesia. Yet the RW seems less diverse...
I'm hardly the one to blame for Dendara being the same on both sides of the Pentan Steppes. If you must vent your spleen over this lack of diversity, I suggest you flame Greg. Meanwhile the next time, you contribute to this thread, could you at least be polite?
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