Re: Sandy's back, at least temporarily

From: owner-glorantha_at_hops.wharton.upenn.edu
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 94 11:11:48 -0600


Dendara/Gorgorma & Peter Metcalfe (think about it. Have you ever seen Peter and Gorgorma together? PROOF that they're the same person!)

My contentions are

        (A) that Sheng Seleris did not transplant Dendara to Peloria, but that it was done in the First Age. Before they conquered Peloria, they lived in Pent. While they occupied Peloria as rulers in the First Age (and before), there were still some nomads there (IMO). And they had contact with Kralorela both before and after the First Age. Note that the Kralori were well-aware of the existence of Gbaji. How else but through the animal nomads?

        (B) The nomads did NOT try to transplant Gorgorma, in any case. She is considered Bad News to the horse nomads, and IMO is worse from their point of view than whatever the Pelorians worshiped before (probably just Lodril). I believe that they transplanted Dendara to replace Lodril, and that they were appalled when it turned out that Gorgorma came along as a package deal. Lodril, of course, didn't go away, in any case, but accomodated himself to the Dendara cult.

        (C) any writings that "imply" that the nomads didn't go to Pent before the battle of Argentium Thri'ile are either misinterpreted or in error. Where did the nomads come from in the first place? They obviously weren't originally from Peloria -- after centuries they were still considered foreign outsiders. They didn't come from Erigia (that was an elf woods at the time). They didn't come from the hills (to this day an Orlanthi stronghold). They sure as heck didn't come from Balazar.

Bad Nick: doesn't want the Pelorian Dendara and the Kralori "Dendara" (Ti Shang?) to be the same goddess, except perhaps as a God-Learner mythic truth.

        Here's another possibility I'll throw out. There's been a lot of talk that the God Learners didn't get to Peloria, so couldn't have mucked up their theology. Well, obviously Yelm and his pantheon are very important to the GLs, so they CERTAINLY had many many researchers and students visiting the area and studying the local mythology.

        Now, we know that GLs conquered Kralorela, though they then altered their magics and philosophy to better adapt to the conquered land. What if the False Dragon Ring felt a need for a sun king? They saw similarities between the Kralori and the solar culture (both are rigidly authoritarian, with great respect given to the rulers), and felt a need to maintain their control over the people, who no doubt resented their presence. Their solution? Import the Sun Cults from Peloria -- with a hereditary noble caste based on Yelm it should be much easier to dominate the masses than by the irksome Kralori promotion-by-merit bureaucracy, which tends to let undesirables into positions of power.

        When the False Dragon Ring was ousted, traces of the imported, bastardized sun worship remained. Hence Yelm and Dendara remain. Obviously they're _greatly_ altered from the original forms - -- not only were they imported by folks who didn't really understand how the original solar cult setup worked (the False Dragon Ring), but they've also been altered through centuries of Kralori modification of the original principles.

        What say you, Nick? Peter M?

H. Smith
>where are the lions of Durbadath (sp?), the lion god of Dara Happa?

        In zoos and menageries? I can easily picture the king of some part of Dara Happa setting aside a preserve for the beasts to roam free within as a symbol of his power. The question arises of what would have happened to these lions during the times that Pent nomads ruled the land. I suppose they'd have killed them *sigh* I'm sure that the Pentans have the same unecologically correct opinion about large carnivores as do the Praxians. I suspect none are left in the Hungry Plateau, since the Sable Riders infest that region. The Jord mountains, which have dwarfs, are probably a safe enough haven for lions, but are the Dara Happan lions mountain-dwellers? Garsting and Jarst are probably reasonable habitats for them, too.

        Harald also suspects they don't wander south into Balazar because of competition with sabertooths (smilodons). I don't think this is any kind of problem -- first off, when smilodons actually lived, they were co-existent with lions -- the two types of animals fed on different prey. For that matter, in the end, the lion-types _beat_ the smilodons in ecological competition, so lions wandering south into Balazar isn't bad for the lions, but for the smilodons. Of course, we know there's plenty of large slow herd animals for the smilodons to eat in Balazar (mammoths and bison at a minimum, and I wouldn't be surprised if the sabertooths picked off an occasional cliff toad or rock lizard). But there's also lots of deer and wild horses and such for lions to prey upon. The big problem for lions is that they have to compete with trolls in northern Balazar.

Alex Ferguson tries to trap me on a point of biology. I pointed out that the practice (among some animals) of kicking out adolescent males was almost certainly not anti-incest, since adolescent females weren't kicked out, too.

>what would be the purpose of booting out members of _both_ sexes
>from the social group, it being hard for one to mate all by itself?

        The purpose of booting out maturing members of both sexes would be to prevent incest presumably. Why boot out just the males if that's the purpose? Note that there _are_ animals that kick out maturing females. Most animals that kick out the young males (okay, all that I can think of off the top of my head, but I didn't want to make too sweeping a generalization) are creatures which have a harem-type lifestyle in which a bunch of females, often sisters, are ruled by a single male (or perhaps a set of brothers, as among lions). The male, desiring control over his harem, boots out the young males as soon as they are mature enough to trigger his anti-other-male instinct. It has nothing to do with incest, really. The harem ruler will proudly mate with his own daughters, if he's able to maintain control long enough for them to mature.

>if one booted out _all_ adolescents, one wouldn't have much of a
>social group left

        Sure you would -- it just wouldn't be an _immortal_ social group.  

Talking about the infertility spirit.
>Spirit of Barrenness? (Sexist term, of course

        I propose that there are two infertility spirits -- one of Impotence, and one of Barren Wombs. It's possible that these two varieties are really the "same" (like Incubi and Succubi), but men would certainly dread the variety that preys on _them_.

David Cake:
>> I have a geas which forces the Humakti to remain a

>>ghost after death
>Is there a specified gift?

        The gift _is_ the geas, if you get my meaning.

>I want to have something available in my game roughly similar to
>what the Household of Death did, quote ".... they invoked the aid of
>Humakt to gain heroic powers in trade for terrible geas and taboos",
>which doesn't sound like the standard gifts and geases.

        How about these Gifts 'n' Geases I've used before:

GIFT: "I swear to kill Alex Ferguson, root and branch." Humakt then helps you at your task, which is certain to succeed.

GEAS: "I shall die, accomplishing this task." :P Not worth it, for Alex F., but maybe there's someone more interesting, like that expert on Iron Brithini Statuary?

GIFT: Immune to damage from all weapon hits, except Special and Critical hits. Magic damage, or damage that otherwise ignores armor, has its normal effect.

GEAS: None of your wounds ever heal. Ever. (You can stop bleeding, though). This gift is generally only taken when you're about to go on a final rampage.

GIFT: "I am immune to all magic, unless the caster overcomes my MPs with a Special or Critical result. Includes beneficial spells." (Carry lotsa healing potions around, and work on the ol' First Aid.) GEAS: Never cast any spells again.

GIFT: "My sword ignores armor."
GEAS: "I may not wear any armor of any type, including spells like Protection."

GIFT: "I wish to be a perfect bodyguard for my Lord Alex Ferguson." If someone tries to kill Alex, I am always apprised of the attempt beforehand, with enough time (barely) to arrive at his side and prevent the slaughter.

GEAS: "Each time I foil an attempt on my Lord's life, I must slay one of my own friends or immediate family members within the following year or commit suicide."

GIFT: My sword always guides me towards Alex Ferguson and his minions.

GEAS: You may not engage in combat against any creature or being but Alex Ferguson or his minions until both he _and_ all his family are dead, unto the 3rd generation. (Note: his family count as "minions")

GIFT: I am immune to death magic for the next year. Sever Spirits and the like just slide right off me.

GEAS: I must kill a Chalana Arroy High Healer before the year is out.

How do those sound for starters?

> The Church is more divided upon itself than the medieval Catholic
>church. Unlike the medieval Church, which directed most of its
>Crusades outwards, and only a few inwards, I feel the Malkioni
>reverse the situation.

        My hero. The Malkioni, unlike many medieval Catholics, are perforced to engage in almost _all_ their foreign negotiations with folks who belong to a different church. There is no state-transcending faith amongst the Malkioni. The Rokari faith is pretty much restricted to Tanisor, and the Hrestoli sect is pretty much only in Loskalm. The Jonating heresy is confined mainly to Jonatela, and so forth. Obviously there are exceptions, but this is clearly the norm. For that matter, within certain areas there are competing sects -- the Castle Coast heretics live right within Tanisor's borders, frex.

>>I think the Malkioni are intellectually more sophisticated than
>>14th-century Europeans.
>Possibly. They are probably less sophisticated than Europeans in
>some ways.

        Yeah. I don't think they're as sophisticated as 14th-century Chinese or Hindu metaphysics of the time.

KRALORI MYSTIC MAGIC: my campaign's conception

  1. They use the Ki Magic from Land of Ninja, but modified.
  2. They use a weird skill-based magic -- if your skill is less than 90, you can spend magic points to up your chances. If your skill is 90+, you can use the skill to create temporary (or rarely, permanent) magic items.

        The power of the magic you can create varies with the skill you use. For instance, a crass skill such as Sword Attack or Riding gives very little magic power. But something like Calligraphy, now ... If you can do magic Calligraphy (i.e., have a 90 Read/Write Kralori), you can (for instance) write a magic word down. When the word is read properly, it takes effect. One common use is to paint "fire" on a log of wood. When you read the word, the log bursts into flame, and you can put it in your stove without having to worry about tinder, etc. Or you could permanently carve "fire" on your stove (this is much harder). Each time you looked at your stove and concentrated, it would light up the wood inside (if there was any).

        Nils has suggested (and I concur) that a Kralori city wall is covered with half-statues of people, monsters, poems, and carved utensils, for potential activation by the citizenry in case of attack. A major task for Kralori sculptors is to carve foo-dogs and orientalesque lions and dragons to guard the temples and palaces. Of course, they can activate and turn real at certain times, if the sculptor is good enough in his focus on his magic art.

        A typical middle-class Kralori knows only his own magic (woodcarving, or whatever), and knows no spirit magic. Instead, he has a collection of little one-use magic items made by experts that he utilizes at need. They might be properly-folded origami animals (eat a rice-paper bear to gain strength, or a bird to levitate), specially-wrapped bandages, and a huge assortment of magic potions, powders, etc. (See _Big Trouble In Little China_ for a crude example of what I mean.)

        Chinese (and Kralori) magic is nothing if not unsubtle.

Harald Smith:
>As for which story of his death to believe, I think it depends on
>where these Basmoli are. Those in Prax IMO would believe that Tada
>slew Basmol

        Nonsense. All of the stories are unembellished truth. When Tada slew Basmol, he was dead in Prax. When the Serpent Kings slew Basmol, he was dead in Ralios. When Humakt slew him, he was dead in Carmania. It just happens that he's been slain everywhere in Genertela, poor fellow. Remember that when Issaries was slain in Fronela, only Fronela was afflicted by the Syndics' Ban. If Tada's victory was somehow reversed to bring Basmol back in the Wastes, he would _only_ be back there, though I suppose they could then try to export him elsewhere.

Note re: Ean Xi, Den Xi, and Gong Xi -- all are now gospel in my own Kralorela.

Greybeard:
> I would like to ask who is playing what and where right now.

        ROLEPLAYING: I am running a bimonthly (app.) RuneQuest campaign. At the moment the players are in the East Isles (well, actually, they're in the Dream Realm, but when they escape it, they'll be back in the East Isles again).

        E-MAIL: I am running an e-mail Call of Cthulhu game.

        BOARDGAMING: I am the Axis in a game of World in Flames.

        COMPUTER GAMING: Currently I'm playing Master of Magic.

        LIVE ACTION: I'll be helping to run a game of Cafe Casablanca in Maryland this March 3-5.

Whew.

>The Basmoli of Prax are lions. They have cats eyes, vestigial manes,
>and pronounced incisors.

        I think that most hsunchen have human racial traits vaguely associated with their animal, but I don't think that the traits are this extreme, especially in the heavily-hybridized Basmoli folk. While the favored Basmoli 'do is no doubt a mane-like tangle of hair (for males -- women presumably wear crew-cuts), and they tend to be a little more mesomorphic than some of their neighbors, I don't buy the theory of cat's eyes or extra-long teeth, any more than I think that the Reindeer folk have vestigial hooves.

        That said, I think that it's possible that an occasional Basmoli is born with a more lion-like feature -- golden leonine eyes (lion's eyes, by the way do NOT have a vertically slit pupil, at least in the photographs I've been looking at), or retractable fingernails or something.

        Incidentally, just because females do much of the hunting (recent studies have shown that males do hunt, too, and in some prides, they do their fair share and more), this does not mean that lions are a matriarchal society. The males eat first, for instance.

Lewis Jardine
>Don't take the figure of average life expectancy = 40 years too
>seriously.

        Exactly right. If you manage to survive past your first five years of life. A person who'd managed to reach 40 years of age might have had less teeth than a modern European, but he wouldn't have been on his deathbed. Even the ancient Greeks and Hebrews knew that a fair allottment of life was around 70 years.


End of Glorantha Digest V1 #46


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