Re: Ghosts and Gods

From: Nigel Smith <ns10005_at_hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 15:36:15 +0000


Alex replies to Simon's declamation:

>> [1 &] 2. The dead have no choice but to go before Daka Fal, Humakt or
>> whoever. There they may ask to be allowed to return as a ghost.
>
>This seems to assume that spirits _want_ to remain as ghosts, whereas
>literary precedent surely indicates that it's often involuntary.

Isn't the literary precedent for this The Revenant?(sp?)

A spirit whose desire to complete a task/get revenge/be properly buried/etc. overcomes the pull of the 'afterlife'?

Perhaps a case of "I'll never pass muster before <insert deity of choice> until I complete the task I swore to finish".

But for a more believable idea of the way the newly-dead think, try some of Terry Pratcett's 'Discworld' books.

Later on, that insatiable GL Michael Hitchens returns to the fray

>Colin also talked of the worshippers forming the god, at least in part, in the
>same way as neurons are part of a human. If it is only in part I can accept
>it.
>Simply by the flow of power from worshippers to god if nothing else. If the
>gods are supposedly totally formed of their worshippers then I have severe
>difficulty. Apart from gods with no worshippers (like the barley head in
>Snake
>Pipe Hollow), the gods are supposed to have pre-existed their worshippers. So
>if they now consist totally of their worshippers (even with a sum is greater
>than the sum of its parts line) there must have been a distinct change
>somewhere.

 And then asks that hardy perenial

>How lacking in free will are the gods, can they plan?

Time for a shameless plug for my own theory (with gross simplification on all sides):

The Great Compromise is generally held responsible for the Stagnation of the Gods, with Arachne Solara's Web binding them in their places. It is held that the gods exchanged free will for the removal of Chaos and a continued place in the scheme of things.

But for a god, for example Orlanth, the loss of all free will would be like a living death, and many declared that they would prefer to die cleanly. Trickster had an idea and suggested a compromise - the gods would lose _most_ of their free will and would rely on their mortal allies to make up the deficit. All agreed to this and swore the Great Oath.

This has two immediate, and rather large, ramifications:

  1. Since the gods did not sacrifice all free will, Chaos still has a place in the world.
  2. Gods are intimately tied to their worshippers - the more devout worshippers a god has, restricting their lives through the taking of vows, then the more free will the god will be able to devote to his/her own plans.

We now know when organised worship began...

Perhaps the only deity to fully understand this is the Red Goddess, explaining Her desire for missionary conquest in preference to military slaughter.

Food for thought, anyway. :-)

   (FX: Checks flameproof jockstrap)

        Okay chaps, let rip,

                Nigel

- -------------------------------------------------------------------
        "Be Pure                'The Sayings of Torquemada'
         Be Vigilant                   Nemesis the Warlock
         BEHAVE!!!                                  2000AD
- -------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------

Powered by hypermail