And now some clarifications to the comments on my Issaries stuff.
I wrote:
>Among the more or less
>rural orlanthi in DP there is no great need of a specific merchant god.
Peter Metcalfe replied:
>What do they do with agricultural surpluses then? Do they give them to
>the cities for free? (for the remainder of this, we shall assume that
>the surpluses are after tax)
The orlanthi farmers do sell their surplus to the cities or full time=20
merchants, but the point is that the farmers don=D5t have a need for=20
Issaries Merchant. They propably send a prayer or two to Issaries=20
Quicktongue to guide their words in the haggling, but they don=D5t worship=
=20
Issaries in the aspect of Merchant as the full time traders do. Which is=20
what I was trying to say. Sorry about the lack of clarity.
Peter Metfcalfe again:
>If by Issaries the Merchant, you mean Garzeen Middleman, then that's
>fine. However belonging to Harst Sparegrain ('First Son of Issaries')
>carries a useful advantage in that Issaries Merchants are ritually sworn
>to give fellow worshippers a fair deal. But since his worship
>requirements is pretty lax, Harst doesn't make much of an impact on the
>religious scene.
I haven=D5t heard about either of these two before. Somebody care to mail=
=20
me some info on them or point me to where I could find it myself? If=20
Harst Sparegrain is a Heortland god, I don=D5t think the Far Pointers are=
=20
very acquainted with this figure, having settled from Tarsh. If the=20
worship of Harst was widespread before the Dragonkill War though, he=20
should be as wellknown in Far Point as in the southern regions.
I wrote:
>I don't think the rural orlanthi have much use of the merchant aspect of
>the Speaking God, except in the big cities. Trading is a spinoff from
>travelling (this statement is arguable, I know), and thus secondary
>(even if very important in the major trading centres). Rurally he has
>IMO a much more important position as Skald, Herald, Psychopomp
>and Traveller.
and Peter Metcalfe replied:
>I just find a little flaw in your treatment of trade in the rural
>sector as being of little consequence. Given that on an average
>year, farmers generally produce more than they need. Now the towns
>and cities need food and are willing to pay for it in items (like
>weapons, pottery, baubles and so on). Thus the average rural clan
>is likely to be engaging in trade with the towns.
Sorry; didn=D5t watch my wording here. Trading is indeed important. I=20
never meant to say it wasn=D5t. But I don=D5t think the average farmer in D=
P=20
worships Issaries primarily as the Merchant God, which in my eyes still=20
is an urban phenomenon. The Speaking and Telling aspect should be more=20
important to the farmers.
I do agree with Alison Place=D5s comments on the same inadequacy in my=20
posting but I don=D5t see the there has to be an either/or situation=20
between Merchant and Skald and Traveller. The dedicated Skald is not=20
stationary but travels a lot in order to spread his words and renown.=20
With the rule of Hospitality among orlanthi I don=D5t see how Skalds could=
=20
walk around and not being rewarded for their services, especially among=20
the wealthy. And I agree with Alison when she says that the Skald should=20
be prominent in the cities on the basis that more wealthy people live=20
there who have use of a Skald.
Martin Crim sez:
>Far Point, though, is a backwater, I agree.
I wouldn=D5t say that Alda Chur is a backwater. Far Point in general,=20 sure, but Alda Chur would be where one would find the majority of all=20 fulltime traders and the cult of Issaries Merchant (with a shrine in the=20 unofficial trading town of Palister, on the road to Herongreen).
I see one problem with discussions about the gods. One god is the same=20
wherever you happen to be on the lozenge, but the local mask of the god=20
should vary wildly from place to place, and so should the cult practices=20
(perhaps the spells too). It=D5s difficult (and, most propably, futile) to=
=20
propose general truths about gods that are (or should be) so differently=20
viewed in different areas of the world.
If anyone knows the spell Dominate Sandy, please make him post his stuff=20 on the web - information wants to be read; especially info on Glorantha.=20 Martin Crim=D5s info on praxian conflicts would be nice to see too.
Anyways, here=D5s some ideas about Asrelia and Lhankor Mhy:
ASRELIA, GREEDY AUNT AND WISE CRONE She isn=D5t really inspiring is she, that tightfisted spinster of the=20 earth? One way to spice her up wuld be to make her the Lhankor Mhy of=20 the earth. She does know the location of buried treasure, and she talks=20 with the ghosts of the inhumed dead before Ty Kora Tek takes them away.=20 And she is old. Old as the world (or at least portrayed as old). With=20 age comes wisdom and accumulated knowledge of the deep dark thingies.=20
If she was to have the mask of the Wise Crone/Witch as well as the usual=20 Aunt Scrooge it would make her priestesses a lot more interesting. It=20 would make sense to me if she hoards knowledge as well as money, which=20 should be scarce in a bartering society like non-urban Dragon Pass=20 (city-people make more of her Treasurer aspect).
She is also the Guardian of Caverns which means she has knowledge of=20
things in the caverns. Dragons in RW western mythology usually guards a=20
treasure; a symbol of wisdom and illumination in the dark caves of the=20
soul. Perhaps the treasures of Asrelia symbolises the same thing.=20
Ernalda holds the secrets of Life and Ty Kora Tek holds the secrets of=20
Death. What does Asrelia hold? Is she the Lorekeeper who safeguards the=20
secrets of her sisters, or is she left to collect the leftovers from her=20
sisters=D5 dinnertable? She is the mother of Ernalda and Maran Gor, and I=
=20
don=D5t think she is devoid of the powers her daughters have.
Perhaps she (and Ty Kora Tek) shares some attributes with the Fates of=20 greek myth or the Norns of norse.
These ideas will hopefully bring some new life to an old goddess.=20 Another thing; her holy day might be known to the non-asrelian people as=20 Coin Day or Debt Day, when payments are made, or debts are paid.
LHANKOR MHY, LAWSPEAKER AND WISE ADVISOR This god could only have the masks of Scribe and Scientist in very large=20 citites or in bureaucratic milieus. In the countryside these masks=20 cannot be supported. There has to be some other masks in order to make=20 him interesting for the rural orlanthi.=20
He could be Lawspeaker/singer - the one who keeps the protocol and=20 remembers the traditions and laws of the people. He does not pass=20 judgement, as that is for Orlanth to do, but he is the Advisor (=3Dthe=20 Ready) to the ruler. He is the Memory of the clan, the accumulation of=20 the clan=D5s experiences (and as such he overlaps with Issaries who=20 teaches the people their History).=20
He is also Wise in the ways of the world, because he remembers=20
everything and has a keen mind for deduction. This knowledge he passes=20
on in the guise of Teacher. This knowledge makes him the Keeper of=20
Secrets as well, having been all over and seen more th an most.
An analogy in norse myth to Lhankor Mhy is the knowledgeable giant Mimer=20
who acts as the advisor to Odin (he keeps Mimer=D5s severed, talking head=
=20
locked in a box according to some myths).
This Far Point version of Lhankor Mhy is more non-exploring than the=20
traditional, even if individual cultists can be as intrepid as they=20
want. It is perhaps more a cult for the elders, who have had the time to=20
accumulate the wisdom necessary.
As Lhankor Mhy is adopted into the storm pantheon and not an original=20 storm god, he might have more outlandish masks than the ones above,=20 which are tailored to be pure orlanthi masks.
Comments on these? I=D5d love to see someone who can come up with a=20
motivation for a more martial Lhankor Mhy. I don=D5t see Asrelia as a kind=
=20
old grandmother, but as a stern, and sometimes terrible, old witch.=20
Postings on Odayla and some traditional ceremoni es coming up.
And if this posting too is sprinkled with odd signs and numbers, I=D5d=20 like someone to tell me how to get rid of them.
Salvete,
Michael Raaterova.
End of Glorantha Digest V1 #87
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