I'm back from an unexpectedly short stay in Norway, one without net access. It seems endless threads (Chalana Arroy) generate themselves without my help, too.
Anyway, Alex Ferguson commented upon a favorite
> Subject: Volsaxi, Kitori
Strange enough, we don't disagree totally:
A while back Jeff said that he and I agreed upon the Kitori as a large tribe, whereupon Alex said that they definitely weren't one of the "four large tribes of civilized Orlanthi" mentioned in Genertela Book.
No, they aren't in that sense, but anyway, Alex, you did perform a Divination, and found that the four tribes nowadays aren't that prominent in Gregs picture of Heortland any more - there are Hendr(e)iki and there are other clans (or minor tribes?), all paying taxes and homage to the King of Heortland until 1617.
The Kitori are one of the wild, hardly civilized, minority tribes of the northernmost part of Heortland, a region where the sovereignty of both the Pharaoh and the Hendr(e)iki kings is tenuous, more lip-service than actual allegiance. The Volsaxi are known to have paid allegiance to Sartarite Princes now and then, and have avoided Hendriki claims with this argument, but with the fall of Boldhome in 1602 they have turned out to be loyal subjects of the Pharaoh (if uneffective against the Lunars, both in 1605 during Fazzur's side action under the Building Wall Battle, and in 1619, when all but Whitewall fell, and their resistance at Smithstone was token rather than effective.
The Kitori are large compared to the Volsaxi tribes, which I take to be modeled after the Sartarite model, with an average of 6000 people per tribe. The Kitori surely have about as many members as the Exiles, about 30,000, but with almost half of them trollkin, the Kitori humans number maybe 12,000 - IMO. I estimate the total Volsaxi population as more than 50,000, given that they support the two cities of Whitewall (6000 inhabitants, IMO) and Smithstone (3,000 inhabitants, also IMO). Maybe the Kitori help supporting Whitewall in peacetime, too, since I agree with RQA 4 inasmuch as there will be a troll quarter, and likely human Kitori as middlemen as well.
(John's comment that the map of Boldhome in the "Rough Gouide" pictured an Orlanthi city is correct only for Boldhome. Boldhome is unique in its architecture and make-up of population.)
Jeff Richard:
>> It seems to be generally agreed within our >> little group that the Volsaxi are a tribal confederation initially founded >> by Tarkalor Trollkiller in the 1570's to contain the Kitori.
> I'm not sure what is meant by "tribal confederation" (tribe, or
> confederation of tribes?), but I don't agree that the Volsaxi were
> founded around 1570.
The Volsaxi are a confederation of several tribes of Sartarite size and make-up, if that sophisticated. They are similar to the Alda-churi confederation, IMO, and their "king" could be called "prince" as well, if that wasn't such a modern term.
> They've been part of the Hendriki kingdom at
> various times, and the Tarkalor timeline could certainly have been
> one of the occassions to have precipitated their breaking away from
> the Hendriki king, and making more independent political arrangements
> than immediately before.
The Tarkalor timeline (KoS p.45, and KoS p.196) makes it somewhat clear that the Kurtali, Bacofi and Sylangi tribes were not the lords of the lands north and south of the Crossline - today's Sun Dome County, parts of Beast Valley, and the region around Whitewall seems to have been dominated by the Kitori before. The joined forces of Tarkalor, the "disgruntled Elmali" and possibly suppressed native Orlanthi tribes united. KoS p.196:
: as a result of their powers the Kitori were smashed, and their : survivors ran away into the waste places. The conquered lands were : divided among the victors. The best were given back to the beastmen, : and the rest to humans.
I interprete this passage so that the Sun Dome County was inhabited by Kitori farmers prior to Tarkalor's campaign, and that their farming in the Troll Woods is regarded as a shameful and bitter exile by them. Not much love is lost between Kitori and Volsaxi, IMO.
The Hendriki influence over the northern border of Heortland seems to have been weak at best - too uncivilized were both the Kitori and the native Orlanthi tribes, less civilized than even the rebellious former Heortland clans of Sartar. (No wonder with troll dominance, really.)
> I'm (mildly) dubious about the Sun Domers being part of the Volsaxi at
> any point; surely they were originally part of Sartar, later becoming
> independent, rather than being part of Heortland.
I don't think the Sun Domers were part of the federation except during the uprising - they seem to have given up their clan structure for a Dara Happa-imitating theocracy from the start, or is this impression wrong?
> Or is this a suggestion
> that the Volsaxi, including the Sunnies, were then incorporated into
> Sartar?
I don't think so - remember that Tarkalor was not only Prince of Sartar, but High King of Dragon Pass. In this position he could try and call upon Beastmen and Palashee's Tarsh as well (the Grazers would follow his wife, Feathered Horse Queen "Mother of Lands", anyway).
[...]
> The human Kitori being 95% vanilla Orlanthi, only vaguely allied with the
> trolls seems contrary to the flavour one gets from the darkmen described
> in KoS, and certainly doesn't square with Greg's idea that some of the
> Kitori are (paraphrase) "more than either (Uz or human) at a non-RQ level".
Some Orlanth-worship, albeit heavily distorted, seems ok by me. (I expect no Sandals of Darkness subcult members among the Kitori when Argan Argar can give the spell without a spell-quest...) After all, the Kitori humans were farmers in the richer lands of the upper Marzeel Valley for some time before Tarkalor threw them out, so they will likely be some of the mysterious Barntar-worshippers mentioned in RQ Companion.
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