Stop YT debate; birth; suicide

From: Argrath_at_aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 22:47:05 -0500


Ralf says, re: YT debate:
> I vote that this argument might be taken off the list
>for some time, and the results only posted some time hence.

Seconded. All in favor?

Guy ("According to") Hoyle says that Gloranthan cults oughta have:
>Spells better designed to protect the child from the rigors of
>childbirth

What, like Breathe Amniotic Fluid or something? In the bad old days, when babies died, it was often due to being sickly (from the mother's malnutrition or something else). The birth itself doesn't harm the babies much, although it is traumatic.

Anyway, the way I view it, birth is the prototypical heroquest. It's also an impressive and spiritual event, particularly the first time. I'm certain Gloranthans use magic in it, to ward away bad spirits and such like. But easing the pain and rigors of childbirth isn't something they'd think much about (or of). As the Esrolians say, "She who is afraid of a little pain is afraid of life." I don't think folks'll mindspeech the fetus, but they will consult a diviner to tell them the important things about the child from the society's POV.

HUMAKTI SUICIDE
Many Humakti, unlike the majority of people in Orlanthi culture, consider suicide an acceptable practice, in the right circumstances. They would never want a meaningless death, however. Customs and methods vary from place to place. The most popular method is to rush into hopeless battle. (Non-Humakti would not call that suicide, but Humakti have few illusions about death.) The Berserk spell is honorable when used to expedite battle-suicide.

     Another common form of honorable suicide involves running oneself through with one's sword, as the Romans did. If one's own sword is unavailable, one may use another's sword, or even a dagger. Other tools are less honorable. The Humakti have a euphemism for self-inflicted mortal wounds: "doing the right thing." The use of that euphemism indicates ambivalence about choosing death.

     A less common method is to court death in a duel. One may leave oneself open to a fatal thrust, perhaps gaining a tactical advantage if one lives long enough to use it. There are some serious drawbacks to this method. People may see the attempted suicide as a blundered attack, or worse, as a dishonorable act. Also, one might survive. If the opponent is also a Humakti, he will get a reputation as a bad dueler, or even a murderer.

     Most Humakti recognize three good reasons for suicide. One is to keep secrets from the enemy, and some fanatics invoke this reason whenever capture seems imminent. Another is a situation where any other action (or inaction) would be dishonorable. Under this heading, the Humakti view battle-suicide as a way to redeem a tarnished reputation. A third good reason is not preventing the death of one's king in battle. Only battlesuicide  is honorable in that circumstance.

     Some Humakti recognize infirmity as a good reason for suicide. If a Humakti has the plague or a terminal case of any disease, and he wishes to avoid infecting his fellows, suicide is honorable. Some Humakti see old age as sufficient reason for suicide. They usually seek to disguise it as going to battle "one last time."

     If a Humakti wishes to commit honorable suicide but cannot do so himself, another Humakti may assist him. The assistant usually holds the sword so that the suicide may fall on it. If the suicide cannot move at all, the assistant may run the suicide through. The Humakti would view that as assisted suicide, not murder. Non-Humakti may well take a different view. (GM Note: plot element here.)

     It is dishonorable to commit suicide for petty reasons, such as emotional depression. It is dishonorable to throw one's life away in meaningless battle. The petty suicide destroys his reputation, and his spirit must make amends in a future life. Not only that, but the stigma rests on his kinfolk. They must act even more honorably than other Humakti in order to redeem the family name.

     Humakti normally stick a dead cultist's broken sword into his grave mound, but never do that with a dishonorable suicide's. If possible, they will melt down the sword and have it recast for some peaceful use. If that is not possible, they will mark it with a Humakt sign meaning dishonor, and abandon it.

     Many Gloranthans view Humakti attitudes toward suicide with horror. Malkioni consider suicide an evil that deprives one of Solace in Glory, their afterlife. Brithini recoil at the thought of suicide, despite (or perhaps because of) not believing in an afterlife. Even many theists reject suicide as unnatural or impious. Generally speaking, Fertility rune cultists consider suicide anathema. The major exception is the Red Goddess, whose beliefs combine life and death. The Lunar attitude, however, only heightens the typical Orlanthi's abhorrence of suicide.

     I don't agree that a proscription on suicide is a necessary element of any long-lasting society, as there are counterexamples.   The way this works is that suicide beliefs are part of a complex of beliefs (i.e., mindset/worldview) which gives meaning to life. In the marketplace of ideas, suicide-accepting worldviews may be at a disadvantage, or maybe not. It's hard to say, really, because of the complexity of the equation.

End of Glorantha Digest V1 #136


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