Re: V1 #180, response to my post

From: Doug Thayer <thayer_at_sangamon.edu>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 20:54:31 -0800 (CST)


Well this thread may be getting a little old, but I felt I should follow up on my (much maligned and pretty much made irrelevant by Mr. Petersen posting a similiar message which reached me just after I had sent this one off, *sigh*) post.

joe_at_sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner) responds to my post:

>> Of course, it would have larger footprints, covering a greater area of 
>> the field, although it would be dragging a plow behind it, tending to turn
>> up the earth...

>
> Nope. In the (too long) iron plow thread we were informed that ancient
> plows didn't turn the soil, but merely ripped open furrows into it.
>

Ancient man did not live side by side with dinosaurs either... certainly the possibility of turning plows exists, it is just a matter of technique.

>

>> I can think of many limitations as to why the lunar army wouldn't take them
>> into the field.  Perhaps the dinosaurs are most active (and useful) during
>> the warmest parts of the year, while the army tends to campaign when it is
>> somewhat cooler (wouldn't you if you had to march around wearing an oven).

>
> No. I think that the Lunar (standing) army is so effective because it can
> attack its barbarian neighbours during harvest time - even if they get
> beaten in the fields, the neighbours will starve in the following winters.
>

This is an interesting premise and I would be interested in any RW examples of ancient peoples taking advantage of this, especially whether the Romans fought in this matter. It seems to me, and without any particular anecdotal evidence, that the Lunar Army would be in particular danger during this period of the year; food prices are at their highest, and surplus stocks at their lowest, just before harvest time. If the lunars rely upon contractors and not upon a public granary system, supplies could become very spotty. Also I can think of some RW societies where men are not allowed to participate in agriculture -- it is considered womens work -- this would seem to imply that harvest could probably be carried out without the able bodied men, especially under the 'moral imperative' of war, for a few years at least.

Furthermore, it seems to me to be to the Lunar advantage to meet the bulk of an enemies forces in mass combat, where the organization of the army and magical support can be used to the utmost. If the warriors of a society are not defeated but are left with little to lose, isn't that a prescription for guerilla warfare?

>> Perhaps the dinosaurs are somewhat like the Praxian lion; anachronistic, 
>> and sustained only by extraordinary efforts of a cult -- the cult of Gazzam?
>> (with rune spells such as Warm Egg, and the ever-useful Speak Gazzam skill?)

>
> and restricted to the western lands of the Pelorian bowl? I can't imagine
> worse than a herd of brontosaurians feeding off well-irrigated rice
> paddies. Maize fields won't be too productive after a cursory visit of
> these beasts, either, and while there is a lot of otherwise useless
> plant matter after the harvest, the rest of the year the beasts would
> be a damn costly nuisance in the over-populated regions of Peloria.
>

Big tractors make for big fields. Even in relatively modern surroundings we can see conditions where large plantations exist side by side with overcrowded subsistence farming.

The question in my mind is not whether I can find in my Glorantha a place for dinosaurs. The question is, why aren't they more widespread?

I am convinced a trained working dinosaur would be a very valuable commodity anywhere where major civilization would be happening. A dinosaur has significant advantages in reach and coordination over a similiar weight of humans. It is something like a steam engine in the age of simple machines. (although steam engines are reputed to have appeared in our own classical age, they were not cost efficient compared to slave labor. Dinosaurs require no metal and do not require highly educated philosophers to understand their functioning). Dinosaurs on treadmills operating grinding machines. Dinosaurs carrying heavy timbers for use in bridges. Dinosaurs pulling ferries across great rivers. Dinosaurs used as conterweights to lift heavy blocks to the top of the (very high) city walls. Dinosaurs as the operating weights in brick presses. Dinosaurs crushing grapes for use in wine. Dinosaurs stomping down the ground for roads, or pulling graders to make canals... the uses are potentially endless (although my imagination ends here).

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