Sandy's Malkioni timeline

From: Joerg Baumgartner <joe_at_sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: Thu Mar 20 10:05:17 1997


I'll follow Sandy's confused jerking from subject to subject:

Replying to Pam:
>>Hey, Sandy - does anywhere in Glorantha have those picturesque
>>limestone karsts like they have in China?
> It had better. Not only that we need a place with lots of
> little volcanic cones like in Turkey.

Southern Holy Country, would be my guess for that.

> The karst country may as well be in Kralorela, I suppose.
> There's lots of mountainous country there.

Most publications mentioning any geological facts have limestone all over central southern Genertela: below Pavis, below Snake Pipe Hollow, around Dyskund Caverns, and the chalk cliffs of Heortland. North Sartar would be one prime candidate to look for some, IMO - with the Chalk Man Hills, and Dagori Inkarth an area unsuitable for either farming or herding. Of course the (Chaos-fighting) glaciers of the Greater Darkness will have formed some morraine landscape on top of it all around the Rockwoods...

> Alex:
>>it's in G:G, book 3.
> What is G:G? Gods o' Glorantha? Which book is book 3?

Glorantha:Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars, or as David Gadbois put it, "...too damn long to be quoted". Book 3 is the Genertela Players Book (aka "the Pink Book"). In my Glorantha index I use GPB for references. (I have a quite complete list of abbreviations for the Glorantha sources. Shall I post them? Would they be useful for a FAQ, and what has become out of that project?)

>Alex:
>>what I meant was the "orthodox" beliefs of the first age. Or at
>>least the majority consensus, or whatever actually existed. Those
>>which Nick claims the God Learners "reformed"
> I do not think there were any orthodox beliefs of the First
> Age. This entire age was a massive state of flux for Malkionism.

> Here is a brief timeline I'd be proud to have debated by
> Malkioni fans:

> 1) first decade -- Hrestol has his revelation, preaches to
> lots of people, has his thoughts written down, and is martyred.

Make that first decades, and I agree. I like the concept forwarded by Nick that Hrestol traveled around visiting all the Kingdom of Logic descendants. While I believe that his martyrdom involved the symbols not only of the soldier caste (the sword, aka cross or Death Rune), but also all the other symbols of the castes whose secrets he had betrayed. IMO Hrestol was executed for Caste Crime (thinking of the Eurithmics' soundtrack to 1984, I imagine Annie Lennox singng about this instead of Sex Crime).

> 2) first century: so-called "Hrestolism" spreads with
> religious fervor among the oppressed Brithini, who flock to the
> standards. There's certainly some rigorous attempts at suppression of
> this by the rulers of Brithos, but ultimately they fail and most of
> the Brithini on the mainland switch faiths. The few remaining ones
> mostly die out from inability to maintain their society, except for a
> few minute enclaves.

Whom do you call Brithini? My current opinion is that Malkion received his first revelation in the lesser Darkness, and as a result his followers were separated from the Brithini, and called themselves the Malkioni. Exiled from the land of his wife (the goddess Britha, according to some ancient sources; other sources mention different mothers for his sons without naming them, but Brithini = the descendants of the children of (Malkion and) Britha has some linguistical logic. Frex. Waertagi (other descendants from Malkion) are not counted among the Brithini.

There were colonies of the people of Brithos everywhere where the Waertagi had founded dry-docks, and transported excess population from the motherland, or later refugees before the glacier. These colonies included Sog City in Akem (which seems to have developed a civilisation independently from the Brithini), Seshnela, God Forgot, and possibly Slontos. IMO the north Jrustela was Vadeli-held in these times, refugees from the lands south of the Awesome Bridge shown in the Trollpak map of Greater Darkness Glorantha.

IMO Malkion was banished from Brithos by his sons (by Britha) when he declared his new philosophy of Solace, and was received by the Genertelan colonists, who (faced with death on a more frequent basis than the motherland) widely embraced his revelation, and the concept of Solace.

I suppose that the God Learner document describing the history of Glorantha in Cults of Terror uses older sources than the new doctrine of the Invisible God, and therefore has some hints at the nature of pre-God Learner Malkionism which escaped the later purges of libraries.

CoT p.16
"Western Genertela was the source of the humanists. The culture began in the land of Brithos, and was ancient even before time began. It was so old that it had schisms within it even in the Dawn Ages. For instance, the Old Malkioni religion was long forgotten, dead when the god was killed, and instead the Wizards' secrets gave spiritual mastery and fulfilment for the people, but the dawning of year 2 established the New Malkioni religion - the spiritual support of the Hrestol knights. The two extant cultures expanded into the darkened lands and drove away or absorbed the savages who lurked there. They were a sea-going race, thanks to intimate contact with the race called Waertagi (who tried never to set foot on land). They dominated the regions around the Neliomi Sea, the trade routes into Fronela and Tanisor, and the coasts of Slontos."

IMO the knights combined all of the castes' knowledge, quite similar to what the Castle Coasters claim - their church made a distinction between soldiers and knights, the latter having reached greater spiritual advancement by their mastery of not only their own caste's but also the other caste's occupations. Since Hrestol became a Saint, some regard this way as the way to sainthood, not with guaranteed outcome, but character- and soul-building.

CoT p.18:
"[in Seshnela Arkat] began to train to become a full knight of Hrestol. In these years he discovered the first clues to heroquesting, though making no great advance in the art. He became a knight quickly"

Since he became the patron of sorcerous magic among the trolls, he must have learned this magic here, since the Brithini soldiers don't learn any magic, and neither learn to command (according to Greg's lecture from the Arkat Saga as captured on the RQ-Con 1 video tape).

> At this time, Hrestolism is very simple, without much complex
> doctrine. It is a theology of liberation, and every preacher probably
> explains the doctrine in his own way, and has his own concept of
> Solace in Glory.

The Hrestoli liberation also shows that there is a way out of the caste restrictions, the way of the "near hero", the knight. At least that's what some of the knights say.

> 3) second century: there's enough Hrestoli now, that they can
> found their own nations, which they do, attempting to base their
> society on Hrestol's teachings which, sadly, prove imprecise.

Being basically a model to form a force of knights out of a populace beset by enemies, not a reformed society. (This strikes me as similar to the application of Communism, which was designed for an industrial society, on the rural masses of Russia by Lenin. An adaption of a theory to a field it wasn't designed for...)

> Also, at this time (and in the previous century) there's been
> tons of pressure from the Basmoli and other pagans. It's hard to
> believe none of the pagan teachings have seeped into certain kingdoms
> of Hrestolism.

Especially since some of the pagans likely were as beset by the Basmoli as were the Seshnegi. They were likely to ally, and alliances often are affirmed by marriages. This might also be the time when the first people not descended from the Kingdom of Logic were introduced into Malkion's worship, unless Malkion himself did so with the ancient civilisation of Akem. (In this case I suppose the natives of Akem were descendants of a Sea nymph and a Storm God, like Malkion himself and their neighbours on Ygg's Islands.)

> Anyway, this is the time that the Hrestoli start realizing
> that they are not all identical. The concept of apostate and heretic
> emerge, and people start defining their faiths. And also figuring out
> what to do about the gods. Where do _they_ fit in? Until this time,
> it is my belief that the vision of Hrestol was believed to liberate
> you so that you _could_ worship other gods. I.e., Hrestolism was much
> like the modern Lunar Empire -- a veneer spread over _any_
> pre-existing sect.

"Though shalt worship no god above Malkion!" doesn't exclude worship of gods beside or under Malkion, does it? I like the comparison to the Lunars.

The most exclusive faith to develop is the True Hrestoli Way, who turn away from Liberation and instead persecute deviating views.

> 4) third century: different sects crystallize, with varying
> views on Tap, for instance. Views on gods start to harden -- maybe
> you _shouldn't_ worship pagan gods. Tap takes its place as the
> equivalent of the discussions on the nature of the trinity that early
> Christianity turmoiled over.

The Glorantha Book timeline gives ca. 200 ST for the True Hrestol Way movement in Seshnela. IMO monotheism is introduced now: "there is no god worthy of worship except Malkion". (IMO the Cults of Prax Ancestor worship hint on p.14 is related to this:

"Other distant lands [such as Seshneg in the Dawn Ages] developed this form of worship ntil they made their ancestors surpass the mighty gods in power, or else reduced the immortals to mere superhuman heroes or multi-national ancestors."

IMO the Tap argument is comparable to the Easter disagreement between the Latin and the Irish church in England as well.

> 5) fourth century and after -- the gbaji wars screw
> everything up, destroying many sects, instigating the birth of
> others. In essence, all the various groups get scrambled up and we're
> left with an unholy mess. Thank heavens the God Learners are just
> around the corner. They'll straighten us out.

Why thank heavens? There is one large and unified Malkioni church after the Gbaji wars, with only a few heretical fringe religions deviating - the state religion of the Dark Empire, shared to some extent by the Talori Malkioni in Akem, and after 632 (ST, but to whom does this date as AD mean something?) also in large parts of civil war-torn Seshnela. Only some obscure overseas colonies hold out with a heretical view.

It is really uncanny how these fanatics expand their jihad against the old true religion and devastate first Fronela, then Seshnela and Slontos, and finally the heart of the religion in Ralios. Only refugees or very outlying colonies (Syranthir Forefront's followers, God Forgot, other Holy Country sects) maintain the old faith. The descendants of the prophet have lost the old faith, and only converted barbarians hold it up.

To use a historical parallel: Byzantium as center of the Christian Empire crumbles under the onslaught of the muslims, and only narrowly escapes the conquest attempts starting in 667. Paslac simply was not as lucky as the Emperors following Konstans Pogonatus. Anyway, the greatest following for the Christian Faith remains among the converted Germanic tribes, which battle the Muslim expansion with varying success - the Langobards of southern Italy and the Visigoths of Spain are vanquished, while the Franks and the northern Lombards hold out. The land of origin for the Christian Faith - Palestine - is lost, the centre of the later religion is either besieged - Constantinople - or ruled by barbarians - - Rome. The muslims take over the rest of the civilised world.

I'm almost certain that after the failed council of 660 there is a follow-up council somewhere in the Dark Empire, a great success which manages to create unity between the Dark Empire and the faith of Akem on important questions like the roles of other deities within Malkionism, the origin of Law in Darkness, and the like. The proceedings of this council were declared invalid by the Fifth Council for formal reasons, and therefore aren't mentioned in the University of Sog City Council Guide.

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