>>in the ancient world arms were a commodity to keep, not melted down
> Absolutely true. In one of my sources, it mentions that for
Maybe they were, but that wouldn't cover the iron demand due to loss by rust. Iron mining was low priority in Dark Age Europe - iron ore was found beneath the grass along river lows, and pre-processed along with charcoal - patches of grass and soil covering the lumber to be processed, the reducing atmosphere and the heat caused an iron-rich slack to gather at the edges. Since smiths were quite dependent on charcoal to melt and smith iron, I suppose there was a constant production of new iron as old weapons and tools rusted away.
To melt old items which have rusted or broken beyond repair (happens on Glorantha with Repair spells, too - you get constant deterioration with Repair) into the newly won raw iron saved a lot of time and work. However, I doubt that recycling rates were any better than for plastic in today's Europe...
>>Armour that takes months of blacksmithing to make (or many man >>years) is a historical rarity
> It's the norm. What armor _doesn't_ take an enormous long
True for most other commodities ancient and Dark Age people produced. Keep in mind, though, that human toil was quite cheap, even if it needed some expertise. While ironsmiths remained somewhat reclusive and mystic all over the Old World (dunno about Zimbabwe, but everywhere else I heard about), they generally influenced their (warrior) culture mightily. Be it Wayland, the Hittite or Mongol or Japanese smiths with their products, each provided the means of success for their war-leaders because of either superior or more broadly available equipment (or both).
Bronze and iron in comparison:
While a (number of) bronze sword(s) was produced in a matter of days, the raw metal or ore had to be transported across half the known (and some of the unknown) world of its time.
Iron was different - you found decent ore in the grass if you knew where to look for it. Mining produced superior ore, though - there was a Frankish swordsmith during the Viking era who produced steel swords of finest quality and only made the inlay of his name in the blade of multiply damascened iron, to show off. For some reason or other, despite a very strict embargo, lots of the swords of his and his fellow smiths' workmanship ended up in Scandinavia. I guess that Seshnegi iron makes its way into Orlanthi possession on similarly obscure ways...
The Gloranthan weapon metals are quite different to those of real earth.
To sum up:
Earth Glorantha
Bronze long transport ubiquitious expensive moderately cheap quick to work medium hard to work easy to repair medium hard to repair Iron ubiquitious long transport moderately cheap expensive hard to work hard to work hard to repair hard to repair
Altogether, Gloranthan iron reminds me of the meteorite iron used during the High Bronze Age: a known metal, found as such and not as ore, a metal nobody knew how to produce (similar to gold in this aspect). That it is mined in Glorantha makes a difference, though.
IMO even if there are rare Gloranthan (human) metallurgists able to produce iron from some of its ubiquitious ores, it would be as strange and rare as Aluminium was in the 19th century - expensive because of the (possibly unnecessary) magical and otherwise preparations. The TEB smiths know how to work iron, but can they refine iron ore? IMO not.
The God Forgot people might once have known the secret of processing Gloranthan iron ore to metal - Machine City mass produced crude magical swords, which might well have been of (similarly crude) iron.
BTW, how do the Mostali produce iron? Do they process iron oxide or sulfide ores, or do they scratch up bones from fallen Iron Mostali only? Or do they summon the iron from other sources?
The connection between iron and blood often alleged on this list seems wrong for Glorantha, IMO. Bound iron isn't magical at all - rust has nothing to do with corroding iron, its more like some kind of mold settling on the metal, a parasitical organism.
Magnetite (Fe3O4) does share one aspect of iron - magnetism. This doesn't mean that Gloranthan metallurgists know how to transmute it into the metal, or that this is theoretically possible...
Pyrite has a metallic looking surface, but its colour reminds more of gold, or brass. That it can be used to beat off sparks off flintstone is just another ability it shares with other hard material. Shows Orlanth's kinship to stone (his mother is a mountain, his grandmother Primal Earth - a wonder he is not just another minor husband-godling...) and his mastery over lightning. Instead of "flint and steel" Gloranthans not privy to "Ignite" likely use pyrite and flint to spark off a fire. Especially Orlanthi ought to be fond of producing sparks...
Haemoglobine and Haematite share the blood red colour, and three-valent iron ions. Neither is metallic, neither will cause any Elder race discomfort - quite the opposite. Trolls just love a good booze on blood, and aldryami appreciate its fertilizing powers.
The fact that iron is less prone to break was not the reason that the iron working Indogermanic barbarian peoples (starting with the Hittites) took over a lot of Asia minor and the Mediterranean from the more civilised cultures there, IMO. What gave them the edge was that they could, given some time and hard work, supply metal weaponry to all their warriors, not just the wealthy ones. The Hittite fully armoured warriors kept the edge over the less armoured peoples of the Levantine area unless tactically outmanoeuvred (David of Judaea) for some time.
Similarly the Ionian and Achaean Greeks were expelled by the Doric (sp?) because the latter had full access to metal.
>>the ready availability of the repair spell, which increases >>equipment longevity
> IMO, Repair doesn't increase your total weight of metal. And
Rather the total amount of metal deteriorates mightily due to losses and corrosion if no new metal is brought into the cycle.
Repair might effectively quadruple the life expectancy of an item, but since every use of Repair deteriorates the quality, after three or four uses of the Repair spell the average item becomes useless and brittle.
> Peter M.
>>Sandy has mentioned that the Sedalpists are derived from Old >>Malkioni. From this, I understand the Sedalpists were living in >>Umatheala and Fonrit and the Dawn? How did they get there? Were >>they enslaved by the Vadeli and fled south when Zzabur sunk the the >>Vadeli Kingdom? > I believe that the Sedalpists came from the north, following
Does that mean you are Gregging (Sandying?) the Fonrit article in Heroes? Did the Sedalpists originate among non-Wareran humans? Or do you suggest that there were non-Wareran Old Malkioni (quite unlikely IMO, since most if not all Godtime Malkioni claimed kinship to the prophet)? Where in Fonrit were they settled?
Or do you mean the 3rd Age Vadeli disaster at Oenriko Rocks?
Sorcerous maunderings:
> Klaus O K
>>Then there are those places that are Malkioni with worship of >>"pagan" gods thrown in. What would the status of a priest of a pagan >>god be in such a place? How do they fit into the >>talker/zapper/hurrah/drone system? > Depends on the place.
True, so far.
> Among the Stygians, the
> priests are generally considered Wizards, and replace the normal
> Wizard stock (i.e, you can't be a full wizard unless you're a
> priest).
Which Stygians? For my Aeolian campaign I don't allow full priest/adepts, it's either full priest/apprentice wizard or acolyte/adept - either is a (magically at least) high office. Since I don't believe in purely political wizard class (=clergy) appointments, I made either of this one prerequisite of higher church ranks (Deacon, Bishop) among the Aeolians; the purely political appointments within the church would be "Lord caste" occupations if classified by Malkioni - such as heads of non-magical or only partially magical orders.
Note that either adept/acolytes or priest apprentices aren't automatically holding a high office in the hierarchy of the church, they just become eligible.
>>There was some talk on this list some time ago about sorcerous >>resurection. How about sorcerous stat repair? If it is impossible, >>Malkionism is manifestly inferior to other religions. > Really? Mightn't I argue: "How about long-duration spells
Like Humakti gifts, enchantments, etc, none of which can be dispelled.
Also the rulesism that non-sorcerous magic has no long-term effect seems clearly wrong to me. IMO both theists and shamans should have long-lasting non-soul devouring (permanent POW sacrifice) spells, cast in possibly more elaborate ceremonies than their sorcerous equivalents.
> "I can cast spells with 12-18 magic points in them. It's rare
IMO rather "I have to cast spells with 12-18 magic points in them to effect the same as one point of divine spell." Compare Command <species> to Dominate <species>...
> "Don't worry, my son. You may have lost some STR from that
"Oops, the priest's Dispel just reduced your STR to its disease level. I'm sorry, Sir knight, but your metal armour prevents you from moving..."
Maybe the wizards use their deficiencies as achievements for propaganda - it rhymes with Orwell's 1984 "increases" of chocolate rations. However, with the rules standing as they are, sorcerers are suckered when it comes to certain powers if they remain pure.
However, IMO, they needn't, at least not Old Malkioni and Brithini or Vadeli sorcerers. IMO the Kingdom of Logic had numerous schools of sorcery with spells for a certain Element or Power (as per the Runes of the Celestial Court). Thus there would have been an atheist Stygian School of Sorcery (nothing to do with the religion founded by Arkat, much later) for Darkness magics, an Aeolian School for air magics (again, nothing to do with the later development in Heortland, except that some wizards of that church may have studied in God Forgot with Zzabur-caste-like sorcerers of this branch), and Schools of Death magic or Mobility magic. IMO these schools were taken by later monotheist Malkioni philosophers to make up the tales of the False Gods Worlath, Ehilm and Humct (as given in the Prosopaedia - I reckon there were others as well: Macsta the Sea Sorcerer, anyone?).
So, if there was an Uleric school of sorcery in the Kingdom of Logic, this certainly would have been the source for the Brithini (and Malkioni) Resurrection spell. Maybe the Gaianic (or whatever Earth is called) school has some Restore <ability>-like spells?
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