I note with approval the use of a full stop after Arkat, while the others only have commas...
Superheroes of Glorantha or Genertela? May Errinoru have been an aldryami superhero?
> Greg and I (personal discussion) agree that in general heroes
>are exceedingly rare in Glorantha. We believe, in fact, that there
>have been long stretches of time -- perhaps centuries -- in which
>there were _no_ heroes anywhere.
My problem with this is "How do you define a hero"? I'm sure there are a lot of people that are considered "heroes" by their cultures that may not have a combat factor of 4 in DP terms, but had powers beyond the rune level rules available in RQ. I'm not real keen on the world being divided into ordinary, cf 4 or cf 20 indiviuals, there should be a greater spread of power and effectiveness.
Though DP is our only real source on this matter I'm not sure it's still that valid anymore. The status of "hero" or "superhero" is only a matter of combat ability, but the combat system of DP makes superheros the most important single figures of either side. But I find Argrath to be a much more important to the war or to Sartarite culture than Harrek (obviously KoS is slanted here), but I don't think DP takes this into account sufficiently.
>From: Peter Metcalfe <P.Metcalfe_at_cantva.canterbury.ac.nz>
>other nasties mentioned in the Argrath Saga, ie they are all masses of
>spirits not one huge spirit that has crimson bats for breakfast.
But according to DP one or two units could have the Bat for breakfast, couldn't they, whereas the given rules give huge groups of spirits no chance against the bat? I think part of the drive to understand the massed magical combat rules is to explain how groups of people seem to be able to beat the Bat, the only "hero" for whom we're given RQ stats.
>The Lunar and Sartarite magicians units in DP are different units, (IMO),
>from the Massed Magical Units (Priest) in Sandy's Warhamster Rules.
I agree with this. I'm starting to wonder how many different types of massed magical fighting there are, as there's a lot more than one way to form an army. Here's a few of my (no doubt unoriginal) thoughts:
At the simplest level, the priests or rune lords form a tough unit, but there is no addition of powers between them, they're just using them individually. Equivalent to skirmishing or Homeric fighting, their magic is not being used on a group level.
At the next level up, a group of priests of (say) Yelm, who all know Sunspear, would be able to get together and cast one big Sunspear rather than a combined volley of little ones. They probably have to prepare, but I doubt the ritual to link together a group who are all priests of the same cult is very much more sophisticated than a Worship ceremony. This result is a bigger quantitative effect rather than a qualitative one. Sandy's MMP units in Warhamster seem to be something like this, and I don't think this is the innovation that the Lunars or Argrath are using. Something equivalent to the more standard military units I suppose
The Lunar innovation seems to allow for the unit to produce magical effects that the majority cannot produce on even a small scale. Most of them are "journeymen" level magicians - they are there to provide MP and Pow, and they need to be trained to be able to do this and to add to the whole effect, but indiviually they are probably no more than acolytes or apprentice sorcerers. For the majority of the unit, the group allows them to create effects qualitatively different than they are able to provide on their own. I think these units must have leaders that can produce these effects on a small scale: in effect, leadership of the unit allows them to amplify their abilities.
[I'm starting to wonder how accurate the powers that DP gives these kind of units are. The description of Argrath's units in KoS don't seem to involve the units summoning spirits and sending them to destroy enemies, rather it seems that the units are made more powerful as combatants when in this group. I could be wrong here, as I'm posting from work and KoS is at home].
Argraths innovation seems to be different in nature, though it's end effects are similar. His units seem to be linked by membership of some form of spirit cult, and are quite disparate in their own magical powers. Perhaps his units are superior to the Lunar Colleges because of this, if my 'amplifier' suggestion is accurate: they could then choose a wider range of powers to amplify as the situation required.
All IMHO, and probably bollocks as well.
from one of Peter's earlier posts:
>One thing is I don't think his massed shamans were the sole cause of his
>success.
I agree, but I believe he had them, and they were a significant contribution.
>Internal Transformations can be radical. Cultures are _not_ staid boring
>things. They are dynamic!
True, but the sudden adoption of the philosophies of an alien species with totally different lifecycles and attitudes to reality seem to me be more likely a result of forced invasion than voluntary adoption by the reigning emperor. In the EWF it seemed the draconic influences came from below, rather than above, and the dragons eventually rejected the humans. Dragon Pass seems to have been inhabited by dragonewts and dragons forever, but I don't know if this is true of Kralorela, especially as they have a myth where an emperor brings them into the culture socially if not physically.
The development of a new afterlife or a system of written laws seems much less likely to be a result of invasion. As Peter says, cultures are dynamic.
Just IMHO again, and I think none of these ideas are provable, especially as the Kralorelans won't agree with any of this. (To Sandy: would they just laugh at these ideas, or are there horrible punishments for foreigners who propose such ideas?)
Graeme Lindsell a.k.a Graeme.Lindsell_at_anu.edu.au Research School of Chemistry, Australian National University Canberra ACT 0200, Australia
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