>> Arkat = Chaos
>Arkat is mainly said
>to have been an enemy of chaos, and none of his incarnations used chaos
>(except for Arkat the Deceiver). Obviously I've missed your point here, could
>you explain some more?
Arkat =/= Chaos? He destroyed half of Genertela in his crusade. If that's not Chaos in action, I don't know what is. Note Arkat becomes more destructive as his crusade progresses. So what was the *real* purpose of his crusade? A Race against Time perhaps?
> Well, this is what the Heortlanders would have you believe. KoS Orlanthi
>myths claim that no useful ideas have come from outside Orlanthi/Ernaldan
>culture, but their early written records seem to be rather scant.
Of course they're scant, the Orlanthi weren't in the habits of writing things down, then. They are likely to have kept oral traditions of such changes (ie when Elmal brings in the Horses) which are then written down.
>I wouldn't
>be surprised if there have been major changes without it being remembered.
There are two major issues with Orlanthi Society and they have been a recurring problem since the Dawn. The first is inter clan co-ordination without compromising the freedom of the clan. (All good solutions seem to involve the concept of junking the clan's rights). These are marked by Lokaymadon's New Wind and the introduction of Orlanth Rex (ie the formation of Tribes) by Alakoring. The second one is urban living, how to make the clans support your cities. Sartar solved this one by bringing in the City Ring. But the Orlanthi have had cities before. And the EWF sprung out of Orlanthi Civilisation. But the Orlanthi have always been relapsing into barbarianism.
>I suspect that the evolution of Lhankor Mhy from a bard/lawspeaker to a
>scribe/scholar in the Western form happened sometime in the first 1000 years
>ST. Joerg have any opinions on this?
First 1000 years? I think far earlier. I say at the Dawn, the Dragon Pass Lhankor Mhy were different cause of the close association with the Elder Races. Joerg believes it was the artifacts from Dorastor which caused the transformation, last time I heard.
Joerg Baumgartner:
>Harrek
>is the necessary tool to rip apart large parts of the world, he is
>similar to the role Shargash played in Godtime Dara Happa, or Storm
>Bull in Prax - a destroyer of the land in the fight to ensure its
>existance. He is necessary in the course of things, and this lends him
>additional power. IMO.
Bullshit. There is no _need_ for Harrek's wanton destruction. He does it cause he's a complete bastard, not because some higher purpose marked him out because of some philosophical mumbo-jumbo. And Storm Bull destroyed the World of Prax? I thought that was Oakfed who burned the forests to keep his followers warm.
>IMO Harrek still has the tacit support of his culture - he has the
>Polar Bear God as his bound servant, and while this deity never sported
>an active cult even among the Rathori, it still had their mythical support.
Harrek's Culture is the Wolf Pirates and his vague Kingdom of Pamaletela which probably extends two feet beyond the City of Goan (IMO). The Rathori curse him cause he has _stolen_ the Polar Bear God and thus they are unable to summon the Polar Bear God so they can conduct Winter Campaigns (ie They won't be required to hibernate - thus surprising and scaring the crap out of their enemies). During the Hero Wars the Rathori are going to have the shit pummeled out of them, cause Harrek Bullyboy stole the Polar Bear God. Sandy revealed this in the digest some time ago but I think you may have been in Norway at the time.
>Arkat is easier - in the Jonstown Compendium from Troll Gods it is
>written that there were seven of him in the troll rebirth ceremony. He
>was his own companions, or so I was told by Someone Who Knows.
When he acts to restrain his Zorak Zorani Henchmen, he was over him and their appeared to be more than one Arkat. This is a seperate heroquest power from his companions, IMO.
>I suppose that Jarani Whitetop might be the Silver Age
>hero for the Skyreach Mountains Orlanthi, and there might be more.
Jarani Whitetop can not be a Silver Age Hero by Joergs definition as he was before Heort and other Silver Age Heros. He and his clan had transferred themselves over to the Otherworld (by acting as the guardians of Justice) rather than face an uncertain furture after the mauling they recieved from Harand Boardick and Jogo Zaramzil. He belongs to the age of the Vingkotlings who were the predecessors of the Heortlings.
>Tessele the True appears among the cult heroes of Caladra as well as
>among the heroes summoned by Arkat, so I guess she was a heroine of
>Caladraland.
Trivia: Vortem her soulmate seems to have been a son of Aurelion who was slain by Chaos at Jrustela. So the God Learners seeking to create a Twin Bond were forced to resurrect Vortem from the Void. that is why the Heropath of Tessele has this ugly God-Learnerish List of dieties who Tessele gains powers from (Daka Fal! Gods forbid!).
>the dwarf leader
>defeated by the Only Old One (who might have got a name in the Broken
>Council material).
Malador of the Blazing Forge.
>The fact that most modern day Orlanthi of
>Dragon Pass are called Heortlings suggests that he and his laws were of
>major importance, although this may have been streamlined first by
>Harmast (who reinstituted Orlanth worship among the Theyalans after
>Lokamayadon had suppressed it for more than two generations, and
>remodeled it from the few fragments he still found) and later by the
>God Learners.
Harmast was from Sylila and was later forced to emmigrate to Corolaland. The reorganizer of the Heortland Orlanthi after Arkat cleansed it would more probably be Hendreiki. He didn't do a very good job as the Orlanthi had to pay heavy taxes and his reforms were incapable of driving the tax payers away. So the Orlanthi turned to the EWF.
>However, the leader of the humans of Dragon Pass in the
>Dawn World Council of Friends is Aram ya Udram, aka Yu-Adariam [sic]
>in Cults of Prax's Issaries write-up, King of Dragon Pass.
He's not in the list of particpants at the Broken Council. I assumed that he's a second age hero of Dragon Pass prominent in the EWF. After all the Earth Goddess sends Gouger because she is no longer worshipped (coz her worshippers are too busy investigating Draconic Secrets).
>The Vingotlings were a nation, admittedly of a large number of
>semi-divine humans, but not a group of heroes leading their nations
>through the Darkness and after IFWW until the Dawn.
The Vingkotlings were the Ancestors of the Heortling Culture. Vingkot the Victorious is spoken of as mortal. Although the Vingkotlings were particpants at the Unity Battle, they were somehow corrupted and their social cohesion fell apart _before_ the IFWW battle. The Elves, Trolls and Dwarves would also be hard pressed at this stage. Heort defeats the Chaos horde at the IFWW battle and is sufficiently empowered by the secrets gained from that battle to be able to bring back the Justice Staff from Arrowmound and pass his laws bringing the Heortling Way of Life.
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