>Orlanth was given the weapon he used to take the corrupt Emperor from his
>throne.
Sucked in by the Dorastan Monomyth. Sad.
Domonic Escott:
I had written:
>>>Cult reprisals? I don't see any cult prohibiting the manufacture of a new
>>>god. And even if it were prohibited, people go apostate for less. As for
>>>their possible motives, let see:
Robert McArthur in #024 replied:
>>[cut]...Irripi Ontor: if two peoples are searching for knowledge in the world,
>>there's less for one people to find (first) so I don't think Llankhor Mhy love
<>IO.
Domonic comments:
>I believe Robert is correct here. If you look in Cults of Prax, you'll find
>that Irrippi gives the spell 'Mind Blast' to the Seven mothers Cult. I'm not
>so certain that any Lhankhor Mhy Sages are going to even entertain the idea
>of a cult utilising a spell the can permanently destroy memories! You only
>have to look at the cult write-up in SotB for Aytar (of Thanatar) - he was
>an exiled Sage and hunted continually by his previous religion! He suffered
>reprisals, so why wouldn't IO?
The exact question you asked was whether the Seven Mothers were Illuminated at the _time_ of the making of the Red Goddess. It was this that I was taking issue with. Since the Red Goddess reawakened Nysalor (note I am merely parroting Lunar Propoganda) and reopened the Way of Illumination, it seems to me that Illumination was very difficult before this.
>CoP also states that the majority Seven Mothers are renegades from their cults.
>This is what lead me to feel that either these guys were a) extremely powerful
>tough priests, or b) they were free from Cult reprisals (a.k.a. illuminated).
By 'renegades from the cults', I take it to mean political outcasts. The Carmanians, as we know now, were great fans of keeping religious cults under the thumbs of the Vizers. The business with the Red Goddess is a risky thing, a plot against the oppressors. Everybody involved is taking a gamble. I can't see of any reasons why the _Gods_ themselves will be upset, although the displeasure of the High Priests is another thing entirely.
>>Yanafal Tarnils:...I don't see anything for Humakt
>>to be upset about (yet).
>It states in the True/False rumours section of TotRM #3 that Yanafal Tarnils
>only defeated Humakt by using ressurection. Now if that ain't against Humakt's
>beliefs, I don't know what is!
But note, it doesn't say _when_ Yanafal fought against Humakt. Yanafal faced Humakt at the Battle of the Four Arrows of Light which is after the Birth of the Red Goddess. His experiences with the Red Goddess changed him and all the other Seven Mothers. You cannot use this to say that the Seven Mothers must have been illuminated when they made the Red Moon.
>Once again, I believe that these guys must have been illuminated before setting
>out on a hero-quest to regain parts of this broken goddess. This would give the
>entire 7M's an insight into their actions and purposes.
I do not think they were illuminated because the Red Goddess was the one who found the pieces of Nysalor and brought them back together, becoming Illumined in the process. If the Seven Mothers were Illuminated then why didn't they ask the Red Goddess strange riddles after she was born? One does not have to be illuminated to HeroQuest. The ritual was merely recreating the Red Goddess. She found Nysalor and became illuminated later on.
>What I don't understand,
>is everyone is supposed to remember the tales of the creation of Osenchalka
>[i.e. Nysalor the Bright] and his corruption in history. This leads another
>question why these seven people thought they could achieve what the bright
>council failed to do in Dorastor 800 years previous.
The Dara Happans remember the tale of Nysalor rather differently than the standardized God Learner tale in Cults of Terror. They remember Nysalor as the Golden God of Peace and Plenty before he was evilly murdered by the vile Kragfils (lit. 'Eclipse') whom the West know as Gbaji and whom his followers called him Arkat. No corruption of Nysalor, Nosiree!
>>To be detailed in the Lunar Book (coming real soon now, we hope).
>I would really like to hear from the author(s) about this, as it's important to
>agree upon whether a) I'm wasting my time as all seven are going to be written
>up, or b) the inter-cult organisation and relationships between the 7M's has
>been discussed in this write-up - I believe, going by admittedly obscure
>references in CoP that the general 7M's cult has to be joined before movement
>into the sub-cults.
The author is Greg Stafford for the most part. It's going to be another book along the lines of King of Sartar. I don't think the Cults will be detailed in RQIII style for the Lunar Book. More likely we will be getting the Lunar myths to allow people to get a feel for the Lunar Way. It's likely to be heavily based on what has gone before in Dara Happa and so it was delayed until Greg got his Dara Happan stuff sorted out.
>>Jalakeel: [cut] ...She would appear to be a Spolite Witch who had some beef
>>with the Carmanians.
>I don't know what a 'Spolite' witch is, could you let me know. Also I've heard
>rumours that Jakaleel may have been an Uz! ... I see Jakaleel's sub-cult being
>an arm of the Red Emperor's who is there to check that every other cult is
>running accordingly - yeap that right! Jakaleel the Auditor!
The Spolites were a Darkness worshipping people in Western Peloria. I think they come from the Gan Hills in Erigia but they now dwell in the land of Spol (it should be in the Lunar Maps in G:CotHW). They had an empire which dominated Peloria in the Seventh Century and were known for Human Sacrifice in Huge Brazen Bulls and other things. Their darkness worship still survives today although somewhat modified by Carmanian sensibilities.
As for Jakaleel's links with the Blue Moon, I see Jakaleel as the Lunar analogue of Subere. She maintains the Hidden Powers and Secrets of the Red Moon. This is more appropiate for a witch cult as the Red Emperor has too many secret police units to count.
>>Deezola:... Obvious reasons for wanting the Carmanians out of her land.
>>Her cult is so wimpy, it hardly puts up a fight. So she seeks a more
>>effective diety to worship.
>In CoP & the Prosopaedia that came with GoG she is stated as being a priestess
>of Arachne Solara. To quote from the Pros.: **Few beings actively Worship AS,
>for he spells are beyond mortal ken, and she does not respond to prayers and
>appeals.** And here we find ourselves with Deezola being a AS priestess!
And what does spells would a Priestess of Arachne Solara get? None, IMHO, for any spells 'are beyond mortal keen' and Arachne Solara 'does not respond to prayers and appeals'.
>Teelo Norri: Yeap street waife, and ideal sacrifice for the RG's host body,
>hence she is always portrayed as being beautiful and pubescent. I also think
>like Bryan Maloney's cult write-up on the Web that DX was the actual killer of
>this innocense and hence the channel or 'Bridge' between the death of TN, and
>the emergence of the RG.
From what I have heard, Teelo as a sacrifice appears to be scurillous Orlanthi propoganda.
>It states in CoP that no-one
>could remember the RG from before the Dawn or who she was.
You shouldn't really use CoP which we all know are demented ramblings of effeminate Grey Sages stuck in some dumpsville out in the Wopwops. The identity of the Red Goddess before the Dawn was that she was Sedenya, the Goddess of the City of Mernita. She is alternatively known as Verithurusa. She was killed when Emperor Lukarius shot the Moon down with the Bow of Domination, one of the Ten items of the Imperial Regalia. All this and more in the Dara Happan stuff ('The Glorious ReAscent of Yelm' and 'The Fortunate Succession') available from Wizards Attic (see FAQ). As for the details of how to recreate the Red Goddess, I really have no idea save that most of it seems to have been worked out between Irrippi, She Who Waits and Jakaleel.
>>Irrippi Ontor: ... I think he was outlawed for his
>>association with Yanafal rather than blasphemising against Lhankor Mhy. I
>>have the impression of Irrippi as one of those faithful retainers following
>>his master out into the wilderness, seeking to return him to power.
>IO being a friend of YT brings him into the conspiracy, agreed. But theres some
>thing more sinister about IO than let on... As already mentioned above, IO
>gives the cult Mind Blast, that's one hell of spell for a 'faithful retainer'.
>No. He must have been as powerful as the others to even have been considered.
So? He could have gained that after the Red Goddess was born.
Michael Raaterova:
>Does anyone of the Gurus have any detailed info on Kolat and his
>'shamans'/wind mystics? Does a writeup exist? If yes, where can i find it?
>I believe he's not commonly revered but his cult should exist on the
>fringes of orlanthi culture, especially when the neighbours are spirit
>cultists.
He was the God of the Wind Children. Nowadays the Cult seems to have been misidentified or conflated by Orlanth himself. He would also be found in the Shan Shan Mountains. No writeup exists of him, but I would give him the basic storm spells of Increase Wind, Decrease Wind, Summon Sylph etc. A case could be made for an ancestral worshipping cult, in which the ancestors summoned could also have powers similar to a sylph, but they ancestors would have a more limited set of ancestor worship spells (ie no resurection etc) will be available to the cult shamans in such a case.
End of Glorantha Digest V2 #33
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