> The ritual that restored the Red Moon Goddess was not an LBQ.
Not exactly, the 7 Mothers seem to have been clever enough
heroquesters to mix and match parts of several rituals in a way rarely seen
since Arkat. And the basic pattern is so similar to a LBQ that it would be
extremely unlikely that so accomplished a group (including a Lhankor Mhy who
probably knew the LBQ backwards) would not take advantage of a known very
powerful and effective heroquest pattern that involved a roughly similar
group of participants and was designed for very similar aims (bring back aid
from the underworld). The LBQ and the Creation of the Red Goddess have a LOT
more in common than just the number 7. Saying the Creation of the Goddess
was an LBQ is an oversimplification, but it was a variation on the basic
pattern.
> The
>number seven in '7 Mothers' is based on Dara Happan belief, not Orlanthi.
Possibly. Which isn't to say that they can't take advantage of a useful coincidence.
> Andrew
then Mark said (among other good comments)
> Incidentally, I've often thought
>of the troll/human cult of Black Arkat as a possible source of illumination
>for trolls, so perhaps Jakaleel (assuming that she was, in fact, a troll)
>might have been a member of that cult? (An illuminated troll
>sorcerer-priestess of Subere; now there's a thought).
Very likely. Jakaleel is mentioned as a ZZ priestess, and ZZ is associated with Arkat - perhaps she started in ZZ, was then allowed to join the Arkat cult, and eventually penetrated to its inner ranks and was illuminated. Probably after the Red Goddess manifested chaotic powers she was extremely unpopular with the hierarchies of both, and had to abandon them in favour of Subere, and perhaps closer relations with the Annilla cult.
>Mark
and lastly, Peter Metcalfe repudiated me thus
>> I think Yanafals and Irripi knew that they would end up breaking
>>cult vows in the course of the ritual before they started, and so were
>>probably illuminated. If you don't share my view of the cynical and cunning
>>exploitation of the LBQ pattern by YT and IO, then you need not consider
>>them to have been illuminated.
>
>One can be cynical and cunning exploiters of Cult hierachies and magics
>without being Illuminated.
Yes, by exploiting the outward forms of rituals and worship for your own ends etc. without really having religious reasons in mind. But what I think YT and IO planned to do was actually to break their own most sacred cult vows (YT by being resurrected, IO by using illusion (anti-truth) powers, at least), which is serious sacrilege. I think it is unlikely that anyone not Illuminated would really have planned to do this. They cleverly turned around the LBQ requirement of failure from a failure of ability (as the Lightbringers suffered on the first LBQ) to a failure to keep the restrictions of their faith, thus forging new heroquest paths which enabled them to access powers formerly denied to them.
My respect for their abilities and cleverness is great, though my moral opinions are more divided.
Cheers
David
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