I've been working away from home for a while, unable to keep up with the RQ Digest. Lord, reading 25 high-quality issues at once does your brain in! BTW, anyone here going to Dublin can't afford to miss the Celtic Gold exhibition at the National Museum: absolutely brilliant stuff!
So, a few highlights from the last fortnight or so. I'll try catching up in roughly chronological order, to avoid confusing myself. Sorry if this opens up cans better closed...
> I've heard rumours that Jakaleel may have been an Uz!
I've heard these too, but prefer not to believe them. For my money, she was some kind of Witch: probably a Darkness-worshipping human shaman, tied more closely to Subere (and secrets/mysteries) than Zorak Zoran (and hatred/ vengeance: though she probably had some of these in order to make her join the Seven Mothers). And blind as a bat, of course. HEY: maybe the Carmanians blinded her as a Witch! Maybe that's why she joined the Conspiracy??
> I would like to mention a particularly fabulous theory at this point
> (probably due to Nick Brooke). Are people familiar with the theory that
> the awakening of the goddess was a form of Lightbringers Quest?
Yep, I'll accept responsibility for promulgating that one without even asking in what sense of the word you found it "fabulous"! You see, in the eleventh century S.T. there were very close links between the three great Pelorian powers of Carmania, Dara Happa and Saird. (Like, the Padishah, Emperor and High King were all brothers at one stage). A fair bit of non- God Learner monomythologising went on to explain how their cultures and religions fitted together (you've had my piece on linked imagery before: lions, eagles, hounds). For my money, it was in Saird that the "modern" Orlanth vs. Yelm stories originated -- reconciliations between the developed mythology of Saird and Dara Happa. Anyoldhow, it was at this point that the Carmanians rediscovered the Lightbringers Quest (hereafter LBQ).
Rediscovered, of course, because the first time they'd encountered it was when their cultural forefather, Talor the Laughing Warrior, was rescued from some form of "Hell" (poss. within the Gate of Banir?) by Harmast Barefoot's second LBQ. Now, you and I know that the "important bit" of the LBQ is the trip to Hell, the Westfaring and the Descent, and that the stuff that happens on the way back is less stressful and less dangerous. But if you're the fellow rescued, you get a rather different perspective on it.
Whatever: Talor's experience of the LBQ was the "Eastfaring" -- a journey out of Hell. He founded the early Second Age Loskalmi culture, "Talorian Malkionism" (which partly paved the way for Carmanian Dualism, though a lot more happened along the way). And the last defender of Talorian Malkionism in Loskalm, Syranthir Forefront, also found himself in Hell when everything turned to shit following the God Learner takeover of Loskalm. So his route up the Janube towards Peloria becomes *another* Eastfaring: an escape from Hell towards a new beginning, a better world reborn in the East.
(Interesting that this outlook gives the Carmanians a lot in common with any Yelmic worshipper who knows of the LBQ/monomyth. And the Carmanians made quite a good job of ruling Dara Happa in the late Second and early Third Ages, in my biased opinion.)
> The anti-social, freakish nature of the Bull Shahs and the (seemingly
> chaotic) nature of YarGan do suggest an Urox connection. Talor is as good
> a link as any. Apart from the Lendarshi connection (arrgh!) one might ask
> is there a link with the Loskalmi region of Tawars? Another puzzle is
> what kind of animal is a "Bull"? Bisons are n't found in Fronela (where
> the Tawari) originated but are found in north west Peloria. Did a change
> from a Fronelan animal to the Pelorian (Kereusi) beast initiate a
> cultural intermingling?
Yep, there's an Urox connection: Uroxi are bull worshippers, after all. The Talor link would be that Talor slew the Tarjinian Bull: remember that many Carmanian beast/mystery cults focus on slaying the animal and consuming its power/nature/essence, rather than keeping it in the prime of health. So Talor slaying the T.B. and Syranthir and Carmanos slaying various Spolite rulers (who also employed Bulls) would become quasi-Mithraic statues. There is a link with Tawars: the Ten Thousand came from Loskalm, and brought a whole bunch of attitudes with them. (Yes, Tawars was at the Dawning a bull hsunchen homeland, certain to have had troops in Syranthir's army).
To my mind, these are "normal" cattle bulls: big Minoan-like ones you could leap over. Not bison here, though I'm a great fan of Pelorian water-bison in other contexts. But let's not start another Moose Debate.
But I have to take (minor) issue with your description of the Bull Shahs as "anti-social" and "freakish." Writing them, I wanted to create a Gloranthan analogue to the Assyrians: a culture geared for war which didn't give two hoots about atrocities in the name of Empire. I have a lovely book of Assyrian historical inscriptions on the shelf behind me, and if time permits I'll send a typical example out (so readers will get the hang of the Bull Shahs' style). The Bull Shahs were self-consciously "strong" and "terrible" in order to project the fear and submission that kept their empire together. They weren't giggling loons or chaos-tainted monsters: they were normal human beings, and quite scary enough, thank you very much.
Similarly, I reject with contumely the proposal from Paul Reilly and Finula McCaul that all or most Carmanian Nobles are Vampires or Ogres, in any other than the traditional Marxist sense. Humans are far more dangerous...
> I probably shouldn't ask, but whatever became of YarGan's blue people?
They're cannibal monsters who live underwater in the Sweet Sea, and steal away little children who walk too close to the seashore late at night. Allegedly. I don't think they're related to the 3EBs, but am ready to be convinced. And there's no known connection to the Bull Shahs (though do I recall some Carmanian Noble who loved a water-spirit of Lake Oronin being the proximate cause for the Battle for Castle Blue?). The Third Shah, Carshandar the Peacemaker, took a wife from the shore of the Sweet Sea, but then he founded Carmanian polygamy. She did magic with mirrors, as I recall.
> On another matter all together (and I hope the local Lunar lovers won't
> flame me for this) I have a theory about what will happen what will
> happen when Wakbotlar (sp?), from Lords of Terror, finally sires the
> "Devil". It's the long-awaited incarnation of the White Moon!
In "How the West was One," the White Moon Child might have been the daughter of the Queen of the Kiss and Lord Death on a Horse, now living in Zoria. But this is only a rumour/theory, and your version is just as good. "After all, we kicked the shit out of Secura Urbanus, and this can hardly be as bad..."
Peter's also leery of the practice of describing all animal-worshipping cultures as "hsunchen," another fine habit for which I commend him to you. This is particularly important with the Bull Shahs, Lion Shahs, et al: there are elements of Hsunchen, Humakti/Orlanthi and Malkioni practice in their rituals, but each should be seen as a thing in itself, not a cookie-cutter God Learnerism.
Peter also mentions how:
> Nineteenth Century prevailing Wisdom had the Whites at the top level of
> the Tree of Life with the 'darkies' somewhat further down.
Interestingly enough, the Arabs had already worked out that it was the other way around a thousand years earlier. We live so far north that our brains turn to pudding in the weak sunlight, you see.
I enjoyed the scientific posts by Robin Brown and David Cake (on Gloranthan "atoms").
> It seems to me that as long as an illuminant continues to perform their
> cult functions with dilligence, they are in effect acting exactly like all
> of the god's other worshippers, and are indistinguishable from them until
> some _act_ spills the beans.
Yep, that's how Greg and I acted it out at Convulsion '94. The Orlanth priest can guess you're a Illuminate if (frex) you don't come down with impests after breaking some cult or clan taboo. So, as a Top Tip for all Orlanthi Riddlers out there: "Make the Storm Voice think you're still a good Orlanthi by infesting yourself with fleas and getting your friends to beat you up every time you do something he wouldn't approve of. He'll never suspect a thing!"
> Matching up the participants [between 7mQ and LBQ] is difficult. Which
> may tell us as much about the nature of the LBQ as anything.
My own crude version would be:
Jakaleel the Witch Issaries Teelo Norri Flesh Man Queen Deezola Chalana Arroy She Who Waits Ginna Jar Yanafal Tarnils Eurmal Irrippi Ontor Lhankor Mhy Danfive Xaron Orlanth
Probably the three "controversial" ones are Jakaleel/Issaries (but who better to watch your path on a journey through Hell than a Darkness Witch?), Yanafal/Eurmal (but the association of Death and the Trickster is ancient, and Yanafal's most famous story is how he fooled Humakt in a duel), and Danfive/Orlanth (nobody on this list, I am sure, can see how Orlanth might become a bandit, rapist and murderer from a Pelorian perspective).
*Possibly* Queen Deezola takes the Ginna Jar ("Arachne Solara") role, but more likely not. I'd prefer to keep the Mystery surrounding She Who Waits.
This is pretty much a functional division. I'm *NOT* saying these cults are in any way equivalent, or that the Carmanian Lightbringer Gods are the seven listed above, or any such rubbish. It's just a first cut at working out what it's all about...
All Hail the Reaching Moon!
End of Glorantha Digest V2 #61
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
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