Letters

From: Michael Raaterova <cabal_at_algonet.se>
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 19:13:30 +0200


I like writing on writing so here's more comments and clarifications.

BTW, what about dyslectics in Glorantha?

Nils:

I said that
>>For the hieratic type of script to evolve, i'd think literacy has to be
>>widespread.

and Nils remarks that he doesn't
>think so. In ancient egypt, the hieratic form came first, used
>on tombs and other monuments. The cursive forms were later.

Uh, Nils - the hieratic script IS a cursive form (using standard terminology). If you mean that hieratic precedes the demotic script i'll agree, but neither of these forms precede the hieroglyphic script.

That the hieratic form evolved out of hieroglyphics pretty quickly i can also agree with, but that was because of religious restrictions - the hieroglyphics was too sacred to be used in secular documents, which forced the development of the cursive hieratic script.

Regarding LM tendency for orality Nils and Peter remarked that it

>Depends on where the temple in question is located. In Sartarite tribal
>lands the LMs are lawspeaker and might perhaps learn the laws orally,
>but in more 'civilized' areas I think all LMs can read and write.

>depends really. For a backward place (like Brolia and the East Wilds
>of Ralios, say) I would expect this to be true. But Tarsh and Sartar are
>somewhat more urbanized due to influences from the Lunar Empire and and
>so I would be suprised to find an illiterate Greg Sage in these areas. I
>strongly suspect that some of the urban Orlanthi are also literate.

[Greg Sage? Is this a euphemism for God Learner? ;]

Perhaps i didn't put enough emphasis on the reason i don't think orlanthi or LM are that keen on literacy. I think these Stormspeechers see orality as the Mythically/culturally Correct thing. Letters are suspicious foreign stuff. In Sartar the pervasive lunar influence creates a backlash - the orlanthi keeps even tighter to their traditional ways, which means they shun literacy and letters as filthy lunar propaganda.

Urban folks have a more laid-back attitude to the whole thing, and so also have a higher degree of literacy and, incidentally, a higher degree of mistrust for a traditional Word of Honour. That's how *i* play the orlanthi phase of literacy anyway. Another reason to shun the use of letters is the Dragonkill - they propably dabbled with the EWF runes, and look what happened when they left their traditional ways: wholesale death and destruction.

That does not mean that your points are invalid, though. I just wanted to add some cultural spice to the stew (alphabet soup?).

Peter Metcalfe further remarks about
>The West: I agree with Michael for the most part about literacy being
>'confined' to the Nobility. However I don't think this means that of
>the four castes, only Nobles and Wizards know how to read and write.
>Some of the wealthy commoners, especially those in the mercantile regions
>(ie Safelster and Nolos) would know how to do so.

Yeah, i agree. I meant 'all' and not All. How much is the western 'all' BTW? 90%? Less? More? It also implies that some of nobles and wizards are illiterate.

...and rural sceptics:
>I suspect that religious attitudes towards letters would be strongest
>in the less urban regions (Genertelan examples would be Inland Wenelia,
>Eastern Ralios, Upland Fronela, the Ygg Isles, Brolia, Balazar, the Shan
>Shan Mountains, Bliss in Ignorance and Teshnos).

Why should religious attitudes to letters be stronger in less urban areas? Religion *forced* the artificial development of secular scripts in urban Egypt. Now, that's religious attitude. Of course, later the de-sacralization of hieroglyphics allowed religious and cultish texts to be written with the secular hieratic script, but that was after hundreds of years of holy letters ('hieroglyph' actually means 'sacred carving' in greek).

...and Esrolian paradigm shifts:
>Erm, if the God-Learners _didn't_ modify the culture of Esrolia when
>they conquered the place (see Zistor), that would have to be a first!
>Later on, you state that a middle east parallel of using many scripts.
>That is not too different from what I was proposing.

We don't disagree, we merely phrase things differently. I talked about *fundamental* changes in society being necessary to oust the traditional way of writing and exchange it with something imported. Godlearner modification yes, but not wholesale exchanging of cultural paradigms.

I'd propose that cuneiform isn't as peripheral as i thought you presented it, or that tradetalk writ isn't the all-esrolian standard. It's a poly-literate society. So we propably mean the same thing.

A comment on the birth of writing in the Real World for those who are interested:

It started with merchants needing to know what they had in storage and what they were shipping in the sealed urns. So they drew little pictures and numeral markings on clay tablets and fastened them to the goods. Of course this system quickly grew more complex as merchants all over realized how clever this system was. It wasn't used for anything else than catalogues and archival lists for quite some time until the priests (who were also tax-men and collectors of goods in ancient Sumer) understood they could catalogue words in the same manner. And from word-lists literature evolved, which at first was sacred in nature, but became more and more secular as literacy spread.

[If anyone wants a more detailed account of the origins can email me privately, or, even better, read some books on the subject]

Of course there are lots of different transitional stages between the first trembling attempts at pictogrammatic messages and modern RW all-out secular literacy. Cultural paradigms have a lot to say about shaping the ways a society develops or imports letters and literacy and learning in what ways to use this new-fangled knowledge.

I'd say it is important to think about what stages of literacy each gloranthan culture has reached and how the cultural paradigm has shaped the ways of using letters/glyphs. It is not at all sure that a culture will adopt literacy with open arms, especially if it has a strong tendency for oral legendry and chronicling.

Vikings, frinstance, never wrote down their body of religious material, but adopted writing for secular stuff, and were relatively literate compared to Europe at the time, with a possible exception for the Carolingian Renaissance.

In RW the mercantile origins of writing are Gospel, which might give credence to the idea that Issaries created writing in Glorantha. Personally i'd think it originated in some urban Solar culture, but i haven't found a good region yet, as i don't have enough Glorantha Gnosis to make an educated proposal.

There are also ways of communicating that are neither oral nor literary. Knots on a rope, pictograms, patterns of stones, colour-markings, scratch-marks, smoke puffs, hand signs, flags and what have you.

Now write those articles on what cultures have what attitudes to letters and literacy, and what other systems they might use for messages! I know i will.

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