I strongly agree. Not only that, but just because a particular group worships animals doesn't mean that they ever _were_ Hsunchen. I do not believe, for instance, that the Praxians were ever Hsunchen.
The Hsunchen say they came from animals, from a _different_ source than other humans. The Malkioni agree with this assessment, as do the Kralori and the Doraddi. No other [non-Hsunchen] human cultures have more contact with Hsunchen than do the Malkioni, Kralori, and Doraddi. It seems to me that when these three cultures agree on this basic point, as do the Hsunchen themselves, the rest of the world might want to examine this question a bit more closely.
Admittedly the Doraddi, Kralori, Malkioni, and various Hsunchen explanations as to just _how_ they came to be differ, but all concur on the single basic point that they are not the same stock as the Rest of Us.
Graydon
>all broo do not necessarily look like goat headed men with dung in
>their hair.
No, but the mark of the beast is strong on them. I don't think there is such a thing as a broo in which no major body part is inhuman.
>Broo have just about the entire range of potential human
personality >types, if perhaps somewhat narrower ranges of goals
Whoa. Broos possess only the entire range of potential "broo" personality traits. Broos are not just a subset of human. Admittedly, broo personalities vary enormously, given their mutant status, but 99% of your typical broos would qualify as hopelessly and dangerously psychotic by human standards (whereas no more than 85% of PCs so qualify ...)
>and they can look like damn near anything, including normal humans.
Not if they take off their clothes. You look close and they'll have a tail, or hooves, or something. Usually something pretty obvious. Not that totally human-looking children aren't occasionally born to the broos -- but these would not be considered "broos", any more than the putrid chaos mutants in the Big Rubble "Slop and Slime" gang would be considered broos. Not every chaos hybrid monster is a broo.
There was an experiment carried on in the latter days of the God Learner Empire. A researcher attempted to mate broo with broo over the course of many generations, in an attempt to find what the "root" broo stock was like, purged of as much motherly influence as possible. But his breeding stock kept degenerating, turning into gorp or the like around the 4th or 5th generation, so the experiment was deemed a failure. Esp. as gorp are clearly not broo ancestors.
[Grayson gives example of a bull-headed broo illuminate -- how could a Storm Bull tell 'twas a real broo]
Well, in the first place, a minotaur and a cattle broo can normally be told apart. They don't look any more alike than a Kralori and a Wereran, though I admit someone who wasn't reasonably familiar with minotaurs wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Just as to most non-humans, all humans look alike.
>For elves, Arkat was illuminated by the Elves of Brithos and
>Rist/Hellwood has long been a hotplace of illumination. Since you
>said that it removes one from the life/death cycle (according to
the >Lunars and the Orlanthi), I can only presume that a heterodox
belief >among elves would exist that it elevates them to a higher
form of >existance with the Grower.
I'll buy this. Though the Hellwood elf motivations for Illumination are somewhat different.
>If an illuminated chaotic tried to use truestone would it let them?
Truestone is not sapient. Even a chaotic being can use truestone if he wants.
Me
> Thus, if you were an Orlanth person, you knew of only three
> Runes in all the world, and probably had no idea that other
> cults had Runes, too.
NickH
>But (in RQ2 anyway) spirits can sense runic ties.
Yes, but knowing that spirit X is "plant-like, but yet man-like" is NOT the same as realizing that a spirit has the Plant Rune and the Man Rune and is thus probably an Aldryami ghost.
I don't think that the spirits see the exact Runes of the beings they are sensing.
me
> And an illuminated dwarf is ludicrous. "I just realized that
> existence is pointless!"
NickH
>Why do you find this of no game interest? How different is it
>from a stormbull saying "I just realized that all this fighting
>is pointless!"
Because a dwarf's existence is already pointless.
>Can anyone point me to something that expressed Uz 'otherness'.
Most simply, trolls are creatures of the id. To properly run a troll, you must not only portray a being of darkness, but a being of the id. Trolls are not that dissimilar from humans on a superficial basis. They want to eat, fuck, kill, and so forth. But these primal desires are _all_ they have, unlike humans.
In the human soul, the world is protected from our id by the sheltering layers of the ego and superego. I believe that trolls have no such "shelter" from the primal force of their urges. Certainly a troll can refrain from eating or mating if some other urge appears stronger, but they have no "finer nature" to appeal to.
This does _not_ mean that a troll is simply unutterably selfish (though a troll will certainly appear much more selfish than most humans). For instance, if you see your kid scuffling with the neighbor's kid, Tommy, a human parent with any sense at all will separate the fighters, try to figure out who bears primary guilt for the incident, inform Tommy's folks, etc. etc. But a troll would probably wade in on his own imp's side and start bashing away at poor little Tommy, unless he had overpowering reasons not to, such as the fact that Tommy's dad was bigger and meaner, or because he wants his own kid to learn how to be tougher in a fight. Every day in a thousand ways you, a human, give way to your neighbor's needs at the expense of your own, because such give-and-take makes up our society.
Trolls live in a much more Hobbesian state. Their "culture" is based on raw power. Why is the tribal queen the queen? Because she has lots of magic personally, because her sons and daughters and other descendants are high-ranking, have magic and strength, and work for her. And also because she's made an alliance with the Subere priestess such that she'll keep feeding her and giving her stuff in exchange for helping the queen's minions against the ambitious Zorak Zoran temple.
Trolls don't ever "see it your way". Their own way is all that ever matters. Even their religions are based on this kind of psychology. Trolls worship Kyger Litor because she is their mother, and so she will be prejudiced in their favor. Trolls worship Zorak Zoran because he gives them great powers, and if you are a loner, family-less troll, the cult gives you an automatic family and friends (the similarities between ZZ and street gangs is pronounced). Of course, there are occasionally families that join ZZ en masse for their own reasons, but the classic stereotypical ZZ initiate is a troll without many family ties.
I hope I've managed to make myself clear. Trolls don't show one another "respect". Trolls don't have "pride" or "honor", as anyone will know who's seen a mighty great troll groveling at the feet of his matriarch and begging for mercy. Trolls DO have cruelty, greed, and love for both friends and family.
This doesn't mean trolls are unutterably worse than humans. In some ways, they're superior morally.
Trolls generally don't hold grudges. Though a troll might remember over the course of many years that a particular human was his foe, and he'd be better off with that foe dead, it's not the same as the human obsession with vengeance.
A troll might eat your legs while you still live, but the thought of torturing someone for pleasure or punishment is hard for them to comprehend. Trolls don't have prisons, judges, or police.
Sadly, it is exceedingly hard for trolls to learn behavior that is "unnatural", based on consideration of others. For instance, house-training is by no means universal. For another, a troll at dinner normally eats everything on the table, unless he is previously briefed to leave something for the others present. If a troll is at a grand ball, and a servant bumps into him, he'll bash him to the ground, then go back to the dancing as though nothing had happened.
Another feature of trolls that is often overlooked is their Darkness. Trolls are HUNGRY. The first thought a troll has when looking at a hideous undead is "I wonder how it would taste?" Trollish dark nature expresses itself in many non-human ways. Trolls are naturally attracted to the dark, as humans are drawn to the light. Trolls are naturally attracted to decay, stench, and underground damp places. A troll sitting quietly waiting to speak you you is likely to pick at his toe-jam and eat it or something even more repulsive. All these things repulse normal humans.
But perhaps the Darkness connection is less important than the fact that they are monsters of the id.
BUT, their emotions are still human emotions, their goals human goals. It's just that their means of achieving them differs so greatly. Trolls are still very human. Elves and Dwarfs ditto, despite their extreme variability in psyche.
Robert McArthur
>So YT has reusable ressurection?
He does now, as he receives it from the Red Goddess, who regularly resurrects every week.
Stephen Sgtair
>Or for a less logical idea: Enchanted Water! What properties would
>the substance obtained from an enchant water ritual have?
>There exist many enchant <substance> spells, why aren't the
>elements in this list? Perhaps they are only known to a few?
The elements are already as magical as they can be.
Michael Raaterova
>And, yes, one thing that we in our modern, highly textual society
>don't understand - in some oral cultures reading is never casual.
IMO, reading is one of the Black Arts. Just because the majority population in Western civilization has learned it doesn't make it any less arcane.
Sandy's Opinion on various writing techniques:
I don't have time to describe my own vision of elven writing, but maybe next time.
Nick Brooke
>I reject with contumely the proposal from Paul Reilly and Finula
>McCaul that all or most Carmanian Nobles are Vampires or Ogres, in
>any other than the traditional Marxist sense. Humans are far more
>dangerous.
As I've stated before, no troll is as cruel as a cruel human. No broo is as deadly a foe, no elf as implacable. Check out Glorantha today. There are more humans than every other Elder Race individual _put together_! Think about it. It's not because we outbreed them.
> Nineteenth Century prevailing Wisdom had the Whites at the top
>level of the Tree of Life with the 'darkies' somewhat further down.
Well, stands to reason, doesn't it? I mean, think about it. What human race has the most ape-like characteristics, eh? What race is the hairiest by far? What race has the thinnest lips (apes have thin lips). What race has the most ape-like musculature pattern (compare Bruce Lee's compact musculature to a Dinka warrior and both to, say, Sylvester Stallone)? Well, it's the Caucasians every time. So then who must be the master race? Obviously it's the lordly Bushman, the least ape-like of all humans, and natural leader of humanity.
Michael R.
>BTW, what about dyslexics in Glorantha?
Isn't that a Rune spell?
Peter Metcalfe:
>I suppose some Ralian Barbarians, for example, have tales about
the >Evil Emperor Malkion who was killed and thus his cult sucks
because >his worshippers can do no true magic (only false sorcery).
Of >course they would then have to explain why Orlanth went into
Hell >and brought back the Sun.
Because the Sun's light was needed to shine upon the false Malkion and show up his impostures for nothingness.
Klaus
>(This has nothing to do with rainbows, but it will never cease to
>amaze me that to the English speaking word, pink is a seperate
color >rather than a shade of red.)
Geeze, how else could you tell baby girls from boys?
>Greg Fried thought up a more modern writing used by those who need a
>more practical scipt. It's called dragonscript, because the writer
>dons special 'claws' an all fingers of the primary hand and use
>these to scratch the signs on wax tablets. Dragon script is complex
>and expressive.
>There are Dragonnewts in the East Isles? Or are these the Sorn
>(Evil Bird/Pterodactyl folk?)
There are Dnewts in the Isles, but they don't have a written script any more than in Dragon Pass. The so-called "dragonscript" is of human and keet use only. The Sorns might have their own secret language of writing, but I doubt it. They're not considered draconic, anyway (or even reptilian -- they're warm-blooded, have hair, etc.).
>Does anyone know what the Lunar attitude to wereguild is?
Proof of the primitive and savage nature of Orlanthi "law".
>Of course if you kill a Lunar they whip out the Marble Phalanx and
>cruicfy you and all your family until you stop killing them.
>>Why spare the farmstock?
The farmstock are used for more amorous purposes.
End of Glorantha Digest V2 #70
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