Sandy Petersen
<< Most simply, trolls are creatures of the id. To properly run a troll, you must not only portray a being of darkness, but a being of the id. ...... I believe that trolls have no such "shelter" from the primal force of their urges. Certainly a troll can refrain from eating or mating if some other urge appears stronger, but they have no "finer nature" to appeal to. >>
David Cake replying to Sandy Petersen
<< I think trolls have an ego and super-ego just the same as humans - -for a troll to be unable to refrain from eating or mating when his moral senses told him it was the wrong thing to do is not only much more at odds with our notion of intelligence, but is also contradicted by some things we know of them. >>
I agree with both, to a degree. Some definitions first.
Humane adj: Benevolent, compassionate, tending to refinement, elegant.
Moral adj: concerned with character or disposition, or with the distinction between right or wrong.
Uz: Us, not them
A person brought up wild, will act as an animal (though intelligent) without any sense of refinement. For example, they will not give second thought to where or when they defecate, provided they are not in danger or do not or do wish their trail marked.
IMHO it's the society in which an intelligent entity is raised which fashions
their manner of thinking. One learns (is trained) in a different environment
to overcome their natural dispositions. Through their intelligence both
humans and trolls are adaptable to survive in the given situation. It is the
background (environment) of an intelligent/adaptable creature, which
determines its method of reasoning and how it will react in a given
situation. The trolls urges may still be there, but they can be controlled.
In Glorantha, perhaps it is easier for a human to control these urges,
because it is their basic nature to be humane. It is only the
'PANIC/PRIMAL/BASE' situations in which the senses may be overloaded. Only
maybe, as preparation can reduce the risks of this happening.
Both trolls and humans _could_ also learn to respect each other morals without actually believing in them. The most common reason to learn such behaviour? Personal or clan/tribal gain to be achieved as a result. eg human traders. Another reason - altruistic - is that another emotion called friendship between individuals has developed.
But given the ignorance of troll ways by humans, and "troll churlishness at the smallest violation of customary behaviour" it is all too "easy for humans and trolls to make trouble inadvertently".
Trolls are intelligent thinking beings, _capable_ of _ALL_ the human range of emotions. They do possess the man rune, after all. In typical troll society, however, there is no encouragement to learn to control certain of their impulses. These actions, instead, are thought natural and to be encouraged. Morals are determined by the society in which one lives. Uz's morals are troll morals, not humane morals.
If a troll baby was raised by humans, I think it would learn to act as a
human of the same culture. Similarly for a human raised by trolls, which
managed to survive, it would act as if a troll/trollkin. Personally I think
either of the above situations unlikely in the extreme in Glorantha.
Either the babies would be 1) killed (human babies would probably be eaten by
trolls if killed - why waste food? ) or be 2) given/traded back to their
respective races. The reason?, both humans and trolls are so bigoted against
each others' races. Its always those who are most alike (but are still
'significantly' different) where the greatest antagonism is shown.
So for me, if you define the society, you define the human and troll. Fortunately for me, Sandy Peterson and Greg Stafford and friends defined one troll society in Haunted ruins. As befitting an intelligent species, each individual is different although filling a niche in the society, and has different motivations, accepted responsibilities and fears.
Individuals trolls can show the gamut of human emotions including but not limited to subservience to overlords, selfishness, cruelty, heartless, greed, love for self, friends and family , affection for underlings , belief in being right, compassion to fellow trolls, hates nontrolls, bravery, courage , fear, trusting, incurious and even humour.
Like humans, they generally show a commitment to family and bigotry against others not of the same clan/tribe/society/culture/race etc to varying degrees. Unlike humans, trolls show their emotions differently and will consider actions to be taken differently from humans. Unfortunately, I'll easily admit that humane aspects of humans often gets unlearned in a cruel and violent world.
So a 'base' Troll rationale could be:
Hunger, Violence, Subservience to Powerful trolls, Darkness (prefers darker clammy places, shadows cool caves ), Love (of self (greed, selfishness) , family, friends, tribe, race) and all without the 'hindrance' of humane morals. Lack of knowledge of humane morals should prevent these being considered. Knowledge of the Hoomanz morals and consequences resulting thereof, may act in the troll acting 'alien' because they'll get a better result.
BTW, all references to troll personalities were taken from the Sazdorf Clan from the Haunted Ruins and all items in double quotes such as "Uz Only! Youz Keep Out, Hoomanz" are also from the Haunted Ruins which I believe is still available.
Brian
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