Re: Heat, or Light? more UZ

From: Daniel McCluskey <DanM_at_edmark.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 15:17:09


RE>Heat, or Light? more UZ
Hi all!
Back into the muss and mire of Troll Mentation...

>>A troll who cannot speak darktongue correctly looses access to many
>>Thousands of Generations of acumulated knowledge and Magic.
>
>Two problems with this.
>
>One : This would also apply to human Daka Fal ancestor worship, in which
>at least the shamans would need to speak the language of the ancestors.

I absolutely agree. I think you will find that Human Daka Fal Worshipers are about as culturally conservative as humans get, even though most human Shamen are only familiar with the last four or so generations (I'm speculating, of course). They certainly dont have the advantage of LIVING relatives who personally knew folks (spirits now) many hundreds of generations removed, like Gore and Gash. Trolls cultural continuity is even more exaggerated, since the cult of Kyger Litor IS Ancestor Worship, and many of those worshiped ancestors are still alive. EVERY adult member of Uz Culture is an Initiated ancestor worshiper, as opposed to the human Daka Fal average of one or two per tribe. Thus every troll has strong incentive to learn the same version of Darktongue.

>Two : Spirits don't necesserily speak mundane tongues. For a start, they
>can't make any sounds, but have to rely on mental communication such as
>mindspeech.

What? no howling ghosts, moaning wraiths and clanking of chains? Certainly the Gloranthan spirit plane is not StarTrek, where everyone speaks English, but There must be Noises. Frex HellRoar would hardly be a fitting Spirit of retribution for ZZ if it were Silent.

Spirits all speak their own tongues, and make their own noises. Not all, of course - daisy spirits are quiet, though I can imagine Tree spirits make a rustling and creaking noise. But Human spirits speak human languages, and Troll Spirits speak Darktongue. Human Daka Fal might need mindspeech for their more distant ancestors percisely Because their languages change over time. Uz Prestige is so deeply based on the ancestors that they can hardly afford to let the language change.

>I'm afraid the rest of your arguments are less than compelling.

ouch.

>>> 3) Trolls live in vastly different situations worldwide.
>>
>>This I would also dissagree with. Trolls live in vastly different PLACES,
>>yes, but they all have communication with the same ancestors..
>
>Again, this should also be true of human ancestor worshiping cultures.

NO. Human Daka Fal do NOT all share the same ancestors. Well, they might all end up at Flesh Man, but no one goes back that far (and why would they want to?). Humans have a ME-based Anc.Wor. (ME, Dad, Grampaw, great grampaw, someone else ...) whereas Uz have a HER-based Anc. Wor. (KL, Korasting, Hero, Hero, . . . ,me). No more than fourty humans usually have the same Grandfather, but ALL Uz share the same Mother. And what Mom Says, Goes.  

>>They all have similar upbringings.
>
>Of course they have similar upbringings - they share the same cululture
my arguments are circular, perhaps -- it's that time thing.

>>Every Troll in Glorantha can trace
>>their heritage back to KL Herself,
>
>Now that, I doubt.

Well, they TRY at least. Some are more successful than others, but it is certainly a priority for all.

One last bit of nit-pickery...

>The males wield most immediate social power.

Yikes! maybe in a daylight raiding party. . . But who do you think ordered the poor beggars out into the sunlight in the first place?

PS -- hooray for Both Descriptions of the Castle of Lead.

danm


End of Glorantha Digest V2 #91


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