>David again:
>>Frex, I believe the East Ralian hsunchen didn't
>>know spirit magic until they were contacted by the Theyalan missionaries
>
>I like this a lot. I think there should be lots of different approaches
>to magic, not just the artificial spirit magic/divine magic/sorcery
>division.
>
>When hsunchen are the subject I think that treating their animal transformation
>magic as rune spells feels wrong.
Does anyone else remember Bearwalkers, from RQ2? I remember playing a bearwalker once long ago. Nowadays I suppose we would call them Rathori. Orriginaly, I am sure all hsunchen could transform between totem and human form at will. As time has moved on, their human nature has asserted itself, and now they need to use powerfull rituals to transform themselves. However, each tribe has at least a few blessed members who can take the beast-form naturaly. - ----------
Eric Rowe says :
>Many, if not most, Gloranthan myths are not based upon the historical
actions of the >gods, but are explanations of why things are the way they
are. If people die, there
>must be a reason, so a myth is created by the priests. If people get sick,
>there must be a reason, so a myth is created by the priests, etc.
What a load of cobblers. Why listen to priests, when you can prove it yourself! Anyone who has been to an Orlanth sacred time feast has stood among the gods, fought chaos, commanded the winds and rains. Who needs to believe stories about myths when you can live and breathe them?
Jeff Richard says :
> Hip hip hurrah! Eric has summed up my view on Gloranthan Myth and
>Culture precisely.
>
> Making things more complicated (and hence more interesting) is that
>each culture has its own mythic truth and that there is no reason that these
>mythic truths have to be related. The Heortling mythos does not and should
>not correlate with the Raibanth Dara Happan mythos, however that does not
>mean objectively that the Dara Happans are right and the Heortlings are
>wrong. Both are demonstrably true to their respective culture.
Absolutely. How does that square with a belief that myths are convenient lies disseminated by priests? Heroquesting is not about making up a reason for why things are, but about making things the way you want them.
> Again, hip hip hurrah! Let the stalwart and honest carls of the land
>and of the herds gather the arms and set fire to the insidious scrolls of
>these blasphemous God Learners and their debasing runes!
Anyone who has made even a cursory examination of the Lankor Mhy library of Nochett, or read any of the elder sagas, knows that the runes are far more antequated than the middle sea empire. Moreover, ask any sailor in the ports of the mirrorsea and they will tell you that the runes are recognised even in places never visited by the god learners. The god learners recognised the importance of the runes, because everywhere they went throughout the world, they found that everyone revered the runes, in one form or another.
David Dunham says :
>You're confusing your history. The Theyalan missionaries were from the
>First Age Council. God Learners are Second Age. And I'm sure the poor
>Ralios Hsunchen had lots of God Learner contact in the Second Age.
Ok, sorry. This still supports my orriginal thesis that ancient hsunchen cultures are likely to have primeval magical traditions compared to more sophisticated cultures.
Damn, seem to have started a GL thread by accident. Sorry guys.
>BTW, I think Sandy or Greg once said that one of the things the God
>Learners did was to break the RQ rules and use all 3 types of magic. This
>makes it sound like the three distinctions have nothing to do with the God
>Learners.
I think God Learners used any kind of magic they wanted, but that individual God Learners by and large stuck with a particular style. The Runequest Sight is not like Illumination, which might let you get away with this.
The God Learners could probably see the world from whatever mythological perspective they chose, but not all at the same time.
To get back to the point. true, shamanism, rune cults and sorcery were not invented by the GLs, they just manipulated them for their own purposes. In truth, Gloranthan religions are a real mishmash. Frex, hsunchen, many troll, and some other cults have shamans instead of priests. However, this is only common among cultures which suffered little or no GL influence. Those that were GL influenced, tend to more strictly conform to the 'ideal' or 'rulebook' formats.
- ----------------
Peter Metcalfe writes an article, subjetc "The reality of myth", with which I almost fully concur :
>Therefore, I suspect it was not Umath (or Orlanth etc) who
>historically killed the Sun. Given that the Yuthuppans say the
>constellation has storm influences, I believe that the
>constellation is that of the High Wind that sweeps through the
>sky. Historically the Wind of Heaven killed the Sun. Mythically
>it's open season. The Orlanthi say that their god lives in the
>Celestial Ring and so when they say he slew the Sun Emperor they
>are correct mythically. The Dara Happans say a much more complicated
>scenario which contradicts the Orlanthi version of events in
>several places and they too are completely correct mythically.
>
>The error many make is assuming that Myth equals History. A Myth
>is a magic tool to comprehend the uncomprehendable Otherworld and
>draw power from it.
I think what you are saying here is that the gods gain power from their association with myths. That's what heroquesting is all about. In Glorantha a culture defines it's myths and it's relationship with the gods through the acts of it's heroquesters.
I once stated that I thought that, when people said Arkat was a son of Huimakt, all it realy meant was that he was a runelord of Humaks, and furthermore that most cults would have quests to become a child of the god(ess). But surely a son of Humakt would be a god?
So was Orlanth a real person? Perhaps the founder of the Theyalan way of life? Did his feet, in ancient times, walk upon Sartar's green and pleasant land? Who can say. Did he slay Yelm? Historicaly, who can say. Mythologicaly - you bet.
Eric Rowe says :
>Also, some of us don't believe there are any 'clear' reasons
>to believe most of the myths in Glorantha are based on any sort of
>action by 'gods'.
The what about actions by Men? by Heroes? If a man can become a god, the acts of men become the acts of gods. Myth is not just a covenient fiction, else heroquests would have no power.
Simon Hibbs
yfcw29_at_castle.ed.ac.uk
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