Myth and Gods

From: yfcw29_at_castle.ed.ac.uk
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 95 12:30:22 BST


Robert McArthur :

>If that's so, then there should be no trouble about everyone knowing the
>GL's secret, since the rules have all changed and the secret obviously
>no longer works - if it did work, the GL's wouldn't have died.
>
>So, those who do know, tell us the 'secret' !

But then, if the secret was useless, why did the Gift Carriers wipe out everyone who knew it?

>Well, I thought it sounded good...

Nice try.

Eric Rowe :

>Heroquesting is also about discovering the way things really are, not
>the way everyone thinks they are. I do not believe that heroquesting is
>as much about making things change as much as it is about discovery; of
>self, of land, of gods.

Both are equaly true IMHO.

>This is simply untrue. If someone says it, they are a lying godlearner
>sympathizer. Anyway, it is important to remember that BEFORE the godlearners
>went looking everywhere, the Waertagi had already been there. The Waertagi
>ships sailed seas and oceans never even reached by godlearners, let alone
>analysed to any extent. If runes were widespread when the godlearners went
>looking, it was because they were spread by the Waertagi. But they are
>not, so it is a moot point anyway.

Ok, so how exactly did the Waertagi ships get to Dara Happa, or Pent? Do you realy believe that the God Learners infiltrated and manipulated the cultures of the Aldryami, Trolls and Mostali too?

I asked Greg specificaly about the antiquity of the runes at the last Convulsion Q&A session, and whether they were found everywhere in Glorantha. He said that they were. The symbols we know today are idealised God Learner versions, but they existed in various forms all over Glorantha before the time of the God Learners. One example he gave was that the Fire/Sky rune may be portrayed in different cultures as a circle, a radiant eye, or other similar symbol, but it is still recognisable for what it is.

In one paragraph you say that the God Learner runes are ain insidious fiction, in another you say that the God Learner system was correct. Do you mean that the runes ARE fundamental to gloranthan myth and magic, but that this was a uniquely God Learner discovery? Or perhaps that the God Learners made it so?

Note - I generaly agree with your comments about the God Learners so far, but I specificaly disagree with your possition on runes.

>>The what about actions by Men? by Heroes? If a man can become a god,
>>the acts of men become the acts of gods. Myth is not just a covenient
>>fiction, else heroquests would have no power.
>
>I believe there are gods, but your logic on heroquests here escapes me.
>Please explain why heroquests would have no power in this case.

If the Gloranthan priesthood could make up myths without having to do anything, why bother with all that dangerous heroquest stuff? A story is just folklore, for a myth you must heroquest. This is as true in the real world as Glorantha. A work of fiction might be entertaining, but is not worth spending the rest of your life emulating it (although I know quite a few people who would argue otherwise for Star Trek - Sad, sad, sad, sad, sad.)

>Let's see. If it's possible for mortals to become immortals, to
>become gods, then how does that make the gods any less impressive or
>majestic? Am I missing something? Is it the "every prophet is a bum
>in his hometown" phenomena?

Ok, partial climbdown coming up : I do not necesserily believe that ordinary people in Glorantha can become gods 'per se'. I believe their acts, through heroquest, can be the acts of gods. A heroquester can act as a god, perhaps even changing the nature of the god in the process.

I think this is what happened to the cult of Yelmalio, which was almost completely re-invented by the hero Monrogh. Yelmalions do not worship Monrogh as a god, but revere him as the founding hero of their cult. However, identity of Yelmalio owes a lot to the identity of Monrogh.

This whole men (and women too) becoming gods thing is even further complicated by the fact that heroic deeds performed by Orlanthi chieftens (for example) will often later be attributed to Orlanth.

E.g. Say a bunch of broo attack the stead and the chieftain blasts the broo leader with a mighty thunderbolt. Later generations might say that Thed sent her spawn to destroy the tribe, but Orlanth saved the day with his mighty thunderbolts. Who is to say they are wrong?

Simon Hibbs
yfcw29_at_castle.ed.ac.uk


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