More Myths 4 (limit 4)

From: Eric Rowe <rowe_at_CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 1995 01:22:03 -0700


Carl points out...

>You also write that "we know" that Humakt was a cult created by Arkat,
>which was originally Humath of Ralios. Um, I didn't know that. Is
>this really confirmed, or one of the perfidious net-theories that
>sometimes seem to spring up?

Well, yes, it did begin as one of those evil net-theories, but was backed with ready support (Humakt cult, KoS, Arkat's stuff). The theories became confirmed with the approval of The Broken Council Guidebook which is a virtual encyclopedia of the first age. A good look at that and you'll see just how much and how many of the religions of GLorantha have changed over time.

>You aren't getting me, are you? THIS IS NOT EARTH! Why are you
>assuming that mythological progression in Glorantha is anything like
>what happens here? I mean, this place is a lozenge enclosed by a
>solid heavenly dome, Eric! It isn't like here.

Peter's comment about humans really sums up all the defense needed for this issue, but I can't resist adding one thing. How do you know the place is a lozenge with a solid heavenly dome? I'm not saying it isn't, just questioning how you KNOW it.

Simon Says...

>Ok, so how exactly did the Waertagi ships get to Dara Happa, or Pent?
>Do you realy believe that the God Learners infiltrated and manipulated
>the cultures of the Aldryami, Trolls and Mostali too?

Ummm.. They didn't, but then neither did the God Learners, who had a much smaller range. Most influence on DH religion came from contact with the first council, the EWF, and Carmania. As to cultural infiltration, yes, yes, and only apostate factories.

>I asked Greg specificaly about the antiquity of the runes at the last
>Convulsion Q&A session, and whether they were found everywhere in Glorantha.
>He said that they were. The symbols we know today are idealised God Learner
>versions, but they existed in various forms all over Glorantha before the
>time of the God Learners. One example he gave was that the Fire/Sky rune
>may be portrayed in different cultures as a circle, a radiant eye, or
>other similar symbol, but it is still recognisable for what it is.

Of course, but at this level it is meaningless. Risking Carl's ire I again point out a human parallel. Almost all civilizations and cultures on earth have some way of representing the Sun because there is a Sun seen from earth. However, I refuse to believe that all these different pictures/icons/disks/cuniform/sculptures relate to some fundamental runic truth about our Sun. A godlearner could just as easily combine them into one rune here as they did on Glorantha. I do not think there is any greater truth being represented by widespread symbols of the sun/fire object other than that widespread people can observe it.

>In one paragraph you say that the God Learner runes are ain insidious
>fiction, in another you say that the God Learner system was correct. Do
>you mean that the runes ARE fundamental to gloranthan myth and magic, but
>that this was a uniquely God Learner discovery? Or perhaps that the
>God Learners made it so?

Perhaps the later. Also remember Runes are representations, they are not the actual system itself.

>If the Gloranthan priesthood could make up myths without having to
>do anything, why bother with all that dangerous heroquest stuff?

A search for the truth?

Andrew adds...

> I'm going to have to take Carl's side on this one; I have never
>heard this 'tale' before. At the very least, this idea collides with
>the Fronelan 'False Gods' Humct (sp?) and Worlanth; is Arkat supposed to
>have carried Humath back to Fronela from Ralios? he was pretty busy going
>the other direction...

Well, if Humakt was created before 500ST, that gives the cult well over 1000 years to make its way back to Fronela. I don't think Arkat had to make the trip himself.

> BTW, somebody said recently that Yelm only came into being as
>a composite of older myths around 100ST. I haven't heard this before
>either, though I'm willing to listen to a logical argument on the matter.
>Same for a composite Orlanth.

Well, I'm currently working on a draft of a document tentatively titled Methodology of Materialistic Deconstruction: Examination of Avivath and the Foundations of Dara Happan Religion Using Excerpts from Plentonius' Text. That should help, but is several weeks from completion (and numerous pads of paper away too). If you're really eager I'm willing to walk you through it in e-mail (I have yet to fail to convince anyone on this topic).

> This time Carl is a off the center; whatever he desires to be true
>in _his_ Glorantha is so. But Eric is entirely correct in stating that
>the past is mutable in Greg Stafford's Glorantha, which is the one most
>of us are trying to emulate. Greg made this quite clear at RQ Con 2.

I didn't actually state that, nor do I think it is as likely several other viable alternatives. Greg also never makes anything absolutely clear. He could also mean that the past, as it can only be understood from present knowledge, is mutable. This is different from the true past as actually occured being mutable.

Anyway, looks like this topic got a lot of new people into the discussion and to start questioning their basic assumptions. I've also hit my limit of 4 postings on one topic (don't want to bore everyone) and will gladly expound on even more blasphemous heretical beliefs on e-mail.

eric

Hmm.... Maybe All Rumors ARE True.


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