Kralori Documents and God Time

From: Peter Metcalfe <P.Metcalfe_at_student.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 1995 15:11:13 +1300


Nils Weinander:

On the subject of Yelm's age, I glossed:

>>Eric is merely referring to Avivath's mission who founded the modern cult
>>of Antirius and Yelm around 100 ST. A Cult of Yelm existed before this but
>>we cannot say that Avivath resurrected the old cult

Nils comments:

>So how old are the oldest surviving Kralorelan accounts of 'Yelm'? A lot older
>than 100ST I'd say.

Oldest surviving? No older than the Sun Stop say I. Shang after all took good care to torch all the books, laughing with glee. The Kralori reconstructed the books from memory, kinda of like fahrenheit 451.

Simon Hibbs:


>Frex, the army of strangers that showed up at one godtime battle (I
>forget which one) turned out to be heroquesters who had all travelled
>from across time and space to fight there. Note, they had travelled
>FROM time, not through it.

Simon is referring to The Nights of Horrors in 1506 ST. The Argrath Saga, IMO, contains hints that Argrath and Sheng Seleris also fought at this battle. I shall expound on this to clarify what I think the relationship between Godtime and the Inner World is and avoid the accusations of Time travellin and Grandfather paradoxes that send otherwise sane people frothing at the mouth.

The Emperor Magnificus and the Sorcerers of Orathorn in this battle had cast several spells which had the effect of opening a rift to the Godtime, the mythic world etc. Everybody present is sucked into the strange place. Only a very few made it back. Magnificus didn't. Hon-eel didn't. Karndalo (Hon-eel's Dragon) did.

On Glorantha, Emperor Artifex comes to power. According to the Fortunate Succession Artifex only brings 'his loyal subjects' back. He isn't going to be stupid enough to bring Magnificus back and abdicate the Throne of Dara Happa. Magnificus with his vampire bodyguard and most of his army and much of the Pentan army are still stuck there fighting the battle. The passage of time means little to Magnificus and others as they are stuck in the Godplace (much like the Hero who enters the land of the Faerie and returns only to find that the passage of time is a lot longer than he thought it was).

Then in 1670+ ST, Argrath returns from the Lightbringers Quest with Sheng Seleris. Sheng Seleris learns of the battle and invites Argrath along. Sheng casts a spell to open the road to that section of the Godtime where the battle is. Argrath kills Emperor Magnificus and Sheng eats the body and returns a large proportion of the Pentan army.

Now if I had visited that section of the Godtime before Argrath entered it (ie in the years 1506 to 1670+ ST) then I would see Emperor magnificus there. If I had visited the section before 1506 ST, then I would not see Magnificus there. If I visited the section after 1670+ ST, then I would see Vampire Corpses strewn all over the place but no Emperor Magnificus. If I had visited the place before the Dawn (0 ST) then I still would not see Emperor Magnificus.

The Significance which many attach to the statement that Time began at 0 ST is what I think throws many off. The Glorantha Book in G:CotHW makes a clearer case when it says that before Time began, things were dreamy like as opposed to after. This refers IMO to the Godtime being closer to the Mundane World before the Dawn. So it would be easier for me to visit the battle before the Dawn but I still would not see Magnificus there. Visiting the Godtime is more akin to Dreaming into the Dreamlands rather than Time travelling.

Now the reason why it doesn't appear this way is that most gloranthans (including the God Learners!) do not understand the relationship between the Godtime and History. The Source for the Southern Version of Argrath's Saga knows that Argrath killed Emperor Magnificus. He knows that after Magnificus's death at the Nights of Horrors, the Lunar Empire went to shit. He also knows that Emperor Magnificus ruled at least 100 years before Argrath was born. He is thus presented with a seemingly non-linear event. This, he rationalizes by saying it was a Godtime event. What his error is is that he assumes that Argrath has returned to 1506 ST. Argrath has never left 1670+ ST. The Godtime has kept pace with the Inner World. Its closeness to the Divine Sources mean that the effect of time is largely _reduced_. Hopefully this clears up a few things for everybody.

End of Glorantha Digest V2 #108


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