King of Logic and other threads

From: Peter Metcalfe <P.Metcalfe_at_student.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 16:40:38 +1200


Joerg Baumgartner:

>The Kingdom of Logic - later to become drowned, iced, or Brithos -
>had its own set of deities, a lot of which made it into the God Learner
>Monomyth. Especially the titled elemental deities sound suspiciously
>of Brithini origin. The names given - like Nakala - come from continental
>Genertela, though, Nakala was a Seshnegi deity. Zaramaka may have been
>of Waertagi origin, Ga may or may not have been pre-Theyalan, (Aether)
>Primolt might be a composite (see the spelling Promalt, and the Pamaltelan
>Promalti people of the fiery south), Umath seems to have been pre- or
>early proto-Theyalan.

The names comes from Continental Genertela? I fear Joerg is confusing the _modern_ presence in Genertela of these names with the thesis that the names have always been known in Genertela. I would be interested to know how Nakala is known to be from Genertela. Aether Primolt is _not_ a God Learner Composite. The Gold Wheel Dancer at the Broken Council Freeform knows of Aether and the Dara Happans know of Aether Primolt but often abbreviate this to Primolt. Therefore, the name came about due to prehistoric contact between the Gold Wheel Dancers and Dara Happa. Primolt, I think, was the generic human name.

And pre- or proto-Theyalan? Are you talking about contact with the World Council here? I think the Kingdom of Logic was long since gone by then. I do not think the Theyalans had pre-dawn contact with the Kingdom of Logic (save for a few quests).

>I once heard of the elemental schools of sorcery practiced in the
>Kingdom of Logic (KoL), and likely still by the Brithini of the Palace
>of the Pentacle (five elements...) or those of Sog University. Their
>leaders in the KoL may well have included Worlath and Ehilm, magicians
>so powerful that they rivalled the KoL deities in their respective
>elemental powers.

It depends on what you mean by KoL deities and False Gods. I believe the elemental beings known by the KoL were identifications of universal forces: ie Himile is Cold rather than the God of such, Ga is what they called earth etc. They acknowleged the power of these forces and their magic ultilized the power of these forces. They did not IMO worship the said forces which would be just as logical as us worshipping Gravity. The worship of these forces comes later with the Old (pre-Dawn) Malkioni exiled to Seshnela.

>The mention of Humct seems to indicate that there were schools of the
>Powers as well.

Not necessarily. Humath was a storm god at this time. I would say from his researches the Kingdom of Logic knew of the powers.

>Note that IMO all this was the state before the arrival of Malkion among
>the denizens of the KoL. Likely the "False Gods" were those sorcerers
>and/or native deities which did not accept Malkion's teachings, or half
>an age later Zzabur's.

I believe that originally the Kingdom of Logic was orginally happy and peaceful and all the philosophies that we know of were tolerant of each other. There was Malkion, Vadel and others all preaching and practicing their own brand of the logical civilization. Think of the Muslim Ulemma. Then for some reason they all start fighting (clue in the first disturbances of the Gods War). The ring of combatants narrowed down to the Brithini under Malkion the Law Giver and the Vadeli as the others (Ehilm, Worlath etc) were turfed out of Logic. Either while the War against the Vadeli was ongoing or after the Vadeli had been defeated, Malkion recieved the Relevations of the Creator and becomes Malkion the Prophet. His Sons condemn him for Being Illogical and exile him to Seshnela.

The Malkioni don't see it this way because they are the Righteous People and have always been following the laws of the Invisible God. Thus the Vadeli were doomed to failure (coz of their child-rearing practicies) etc.

Nils Weinander:


>>I do think that mainstream cults also have Archangels but these are
>>not pagan gods but humans who are know in Solace

>Which makes me wonder about another thing. Can you really interact in
>any way with the world from Solace? Have the saints gone to Solace or
>are they more like buddhist bodhisattvas who postpone nirvana for a while
>just to hang on and help the as yet unenlightened?

Well Malkion has gone to Solace and managed to return. If he isn't in Solace than I don't know who is! The buddhist distinction between those who postpone nirvana and those who don't seems largely artificial to me.

Erik Sieurin:


>"It is obvious that the cybernetic enhancement are in no way
>cost-effective. Sorry, no 46, we cannot let you use any more
>resources for this product, and we suggest that no 678, the test
>subject, reports to the euthanasia center for termination immediatelly."

Presumably Chark the Liberators number was 6? 'I am not a number!...' This could be the start of an interesting thread...

Tim Torres:


>Malkioni Archangels might not BE pagan gods from the narrow, subjective
>(internal) view. On the other hand, from an objective (external) view,
>they might be. But whether they are or not, they might well be similar
>to pagan gods. (Maybe even similar enough to make the distinction purely
>academic and of interest only to close-minded cultists.)

It depends what you mean by Pagan gods from internal and external views. If you are talking about worshipped dieties (aka your standard Theist Cult) then IMO most archangels are not (alhough they may recieve standard Saintly worship). Whether they are capable of being worshipped as a theist cult, then IMO they can be. The fact that Malkioni Archangels are not found generally as Theist Cults is largely due IMO to the Henothiests finding it easier to import foreign cults then to heroquest to improve on native cults (little wonder the Stygian Empire fell to the God Learners).

Sandy:


> Spare me. I meant _inside_ the Truestone -- you know, like
>you store magic in the stuff? It wouldn't be visible from the
>outside, and it would be impossible to destroy the Truestone. But if
>you knew how, you could extract the wisdom within.

(mutters darkly about adamantine mortar and pestles). It wouldn't be written info would it? I imagine all they could do was to store memories and stuff like that.

>>Of course what really throws me about the Elder Secrets astronomy
>>is the Blue Moon's Tidal Cycles. Imagine what it does for the
>>sailors on the ships!
> Now now. As has been stated more than once, the Blue Moon
>cycles are _not_ random, but can be predicted as far in advance as
>anyone cares to figger.

This is news to me. How do they predict the cycle? And secondly I was complaining about the suddenness of the tides. Imagine being in a boat and suddenly falling 2 meters as the Blue Moon plunged into Hell. I suspect that even a hardened sea dog wouldn't be able to keep his lunch down half the time...

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