[me]>> The guys a super-hero, Nick. He is one of the most powerful
>>magicians of his age, the magical equal of Jar-Eel or perhaps even Arkat.
>
>[Throws up in disgust]
>
>I Strongly Disagree. When Harrek massacres an army unit, does he roar
>his head off and carve the enemy into little pieces or does he cast a
>spell to kill them? Harrek Is Not A Magician.
>
Dave, that is not quite what I meant. When I used the term magician, I meant it in a very Gloranthan sense, I certainly didn't mean that he was a guy who stood around in a pointy hat letting off fireballs.
What I mean by 'Harrek is an powerful magician' is Harrek is capable of defeating virtually any magical threat, and he himself performs some exceptional magical acts. Sure, he doesn't generally act like our stereotype of a magician - for that matter nor does Arkat, he is an even more talented magician. When I use the term magician, I use it in an inclusive Gloranthan sense - in the broadest sense, anyone who uses serious magic with any understanding is a magician. A Sword of Humakt casting Morale is just as much a 'magician' as that Adept sorcerer with the pointy hat and wand.
But what I don't believe - I don't believe Harrek simply does everything by force of will (sure, he is outrageously strong willed, but he is well versed in both conventional magic and heroquesting), I don't believe Harreks immense understanding of the heroplane is entirely unconscious (you think he didn't have a very good idea what he was doing when he tried to take out the Polar Bear God), I don't believe Harrek has no real understanding of his magical abilities, I don't believe Harrek is a brute.
To put it in your terms, when Harrek massacres an army unit, I think he (after first making an informed tactical evaluation) calls on his magical powers to make himself very personally, makes perhaps excursions into the heroplane to destroy their magical support, calls on other powers to weaken the unit (perhaps dstroying the morale), and when he has made himself berserk and outrageously powerful, he leads a terrifying wolf pirate charge. Think of what even a powerful Storm Khan does in combat - he might charge in a berserk rage and chop his foes to bits, but he casts magic on himself and his followers first, has powerful guardian spirits either enhancing or protecting him, and probably even casts a few spells to neutralise enemy magical support first (Command Spirit of Law, or summon a Sylph). He may even make lots of ritual preparations for the combat. That is the sort of 'magician' that Harrek is.
I see echoes of my troll disagreements with Sandy here, actually. Sure, Harrek goes berserk, is extremely violent, and is regarded by his cultured sophisticated enemies as a terrifying psychopath. He is also extremely smart, very knowledgeable about magic, very knowledgeable about warfare, and likes his enemies to think of him as a terrifying psychopath. His wolf pirates respect him as a killer, but also think he is a leader worth fighting for, and respect his other abilities, such as his poetry and his role as a religious leader of the Ygg religion. None of this is appreciated by the Lunar civilised culture, and only some of it by the orlanthi barbarians.
Which means that I don't directly disagree with Nicks point of view - - I think Nicks view of Harrek is quite wrong, but I also think it is exactly how Nicks beloved Lunars would perceive Harrek :-) Unable to understand how such an obvious barbarian could defeat their most skilled magicians, they make deprecating noises about how he most have some low cunning and unconsious knowledge, and how he is not a real hero, just a guy with a big powerful magic item and a vicious streak. Kind of like British officers sitting in the club talking about how that damned Shaka Zulu doesn't really know anything about warfare, but seems to be having some luck due to force of numbers and luck, unsubtle tactics of course, displaying no real finesse or skill, old chap. Those that have actually faced Harrek might know better, but they are either dead or still stationed out on the frontier.
I have taken the discussion about Illusion magic to the rules digest, as Joerg didn't really disagree with me about anything Gloranthan, only rules points. So anyone who cares, follow it there.
Cheers
Dave
Computing Officer |" Life is easily understood as bit strings of logical
Arts Faculty UWA |depth greater than their length" - Rebis, Doom Patrol
davidc_at_cs.uwa.edu.au |" Do not think, HIT, it is our way" - Milk & Cheese
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