Due apologies to both David and Peter - it is indeed Peter who I disagree with. And thanks to Martin for agreeing with me.
>> What I mean by 'Harrek is an powerful magician' is Harrek is capable
>>of defeating virtually any magical threat, and he himself performs some
>>exceptional magical acts.
>
>Then what's wrong with Hero for this usage then. Would you call a Sartarite
>Godi a magician? This is the neoglism thing all over again.
>
Whats wrong with hero? Well, he is that too. But you can certainly be a magician without being a hero, and you can probably be a hero with only minimal magic knowledge too (though I suspect most heroes are pretty competent magicians, and I suspect non-magician heroes would be accompanied by magicians instead). I don't think that a human is likely to become a superhero without being a powerful and competent magician, though - I tend to think that a superhero is not just skilled, but skilled in many different ways.
And yes, I would call a Sartarite Godi a 'magician'. I use the word to describe anyone who is a skilled magical practitioner. I do not consider this a 'neologism'. It is inadequate when applied to Harrek, sure, but then I consider the term 'superhero' implies immense skill with magic, and weapons, and leadership, and many other things besides.
>'informed tactical evaluation'. Yuck. For love of Glod, the guy's a
>berserker!
OK, so I put it a bit strongly. Nevertheless, I think that Harrek is generally a good war leader with an excellent tactical sense. I think he actually gives his troops good tactical advice, rather than simply charging off and having them follow. He probably makes sure his troops are well supplied and all that too.
Of course, Harrek is still a berserker, and often for him (being invulnerable and all, and usually facing a demoralised and disorganised enemy) the best tactical response is to go berserk and charge the enemy. Many of Gloranthas great war leaders are berserks. Arkat was still a cunning, clever general when heading screaming Zorak Zorani berserks.
The subtle difference is that your average Death Lord goes berserk because it is the only tactic he knows, while Harrek goes berserk because he knows that, of the many tactics he is familiar with, going berserk is usually the best one for him in that situation. After all, when you are indestructible you might as well just try and kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible, thus minimising losses on your own side.
>At the battle of Pennel fords, he charged the people who
>pissed him off rather than the Lunars and nearly caused his own side to
>lose! >>=-> Think Image! <-=<<
>
He is a berserker, though - a smart berserk makes a wise choice of when to go berserk, but is berserk nevertheless, and once the rage is upon him liable to do some things that might seem very stupid in hindsight. Even to a superhero berserking doesn't come free. I don't find being smart and magically knowledgeable to be incompatible with being a berserker and prone to crazed rages.
>>makes perhaps excursions into the heroplane to destroy their magical
>>support, calls on other powers to weaken the unit (perhaps dstroying
>>the morale),
>
>Yuck. Harrek is not a Shaman or a Wonderworker. He doesn't need 'other
>powers' when he has enough (too much) of his own. Roaring his head off
>demoralises most units just fine.
By 'other powers', I was thinking along the lines of invoking Ygg, calling the odd old hero or cult spirit to ride into battle with him, great elementals to cover assaults, and whatever else he can wrench from the hero-plane. I think he uses magical support simply because without magic he usually only takes out those he can get his hands on (which is a lot), but with magical support he can destroy even more, or save his companions from attack.
> The only time when you'll see Harrek
>on the Heroplane, IMHO, is when he has heard of something that he wants
>and is looking for it. Think Conan and the Raider ethos.
Exactly. I didn't mean to imply that Harrek is a shaman - I did mean to imply that he is someone to whom the most powerful and secret magic is routine. Yes, when he arrives on the hero-plane he plunders it mercilessly, rather than all that wimply bargaining stuff (mind you, most shamans aren't in a position to plunder). But he has a good idea what he is plundering, and effortlessly avoids most of the wrong paths that might lead to defeat even for him. Again, compare Arkat as a magician. And even Harrek does not always attack and plunder everyone he meets on the heroplane. There are a few deities he gets on with.
>He does not make himself berserk. He works himself into a rage and his
>berserkergang comes naturally.
Sure. He makes himself berserk by working himself into a rage. Thats what I meant (as per the Berserkergang of TOTRM #7 or Vikings). I did not mean to imply that Harrek depends on a Berserk spell, as your average Storm Khan would. He could also prevent himself from going berserk should he choose, unless something truly awful was done to him, I think. Note also that Harreks Berserk in DP terms is not much like Berserk in RQ terms, IMHO - - it represents only a hatred so deep he values immediate revenge more than victory or personal safety, making Harrek even more brutal.
[storm khan description deleted]
>But Harrek is a HeroQuester of such a magnitude that most of the time, he
>doesn't even have to think for those powers to come into effect.
>
Or maybe think about it, and then have most of it happen instantly. He certainly doesn't mess around with all that ritual preparation stuff, though. But that is because he doesn't need to, not because he doesn't know how (I think he needed to once, but not much since the Polar Bear God).
Cheers
David
Computing Officer |" Life is easily understood as bit strings of logical
Arts Faculty UWA |depth greater than their length" - Rebis, Doom Patrol
davidc_at_cs.uwa.edu.au |" Do not think, HIT, it is our way" - Milk & Cheese
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