>(What's the word for "taking an abstraction or fiction as real"? I
>can't remember.)
Reification. Quite prominent in the Old Cults of Prax where Biturian details the amount of magic he has cast after his fight with a Yelmalion Priest...
David Cake:
> But when this starts to interfere with game fun, then that is when
>it becomes a problem. And to me, Illusion spells are one of the things that
>has gone too far.
>And my reasoning is simple. Illusion spells are expensive
>enough that my players (and if I am honest, my NPCs) are not interested in
>buying them, so they are not used, or very seldom. So the game is deprived
>of all the potential fun that might have been had if illusions were more
>effective.
If your beef is with the generic illusion rules (Illusory Sight etc) then you must remember they have the advantage of _flexibility_. A Trickster can make the image of anything he wants with one spell (intensity effects notwithstanding). This is big compared to other spells. If I cast Illusory Substance on a weapon, I will have increased its damage potential _no_matter_what_type_of_weapon_it_is_. Compare this with other spells like True(weapon), Fire Spear, Slash, Crush etc which are weapon specific.
I suspect most illusion magics are far more restrained in scope. A chief example of this would be the Creation of Spectres by Basko in Troll Gods. Generally their spectres look like a crossbreed of Trollkin and Wild Dog with some features of a convicted criminal. They are limited in the types of spectres that can created. But look how much cheaper it is to create!
Most of the Illusion spells known by Eurmali would not be the Illusory Sight, Substance etc given in the rulebook but more like the quirky spells (become pile of dung) given in GoG. This is a misunderstanding, I believe, which stems from the God Learner belief that Eurmal holds the Illusion Rune
G. Winter:
>As this is the Glorantha list & not the rules list, what we should be talking
>about is to what extent does Illusion magic exist. There are VERY few Eurmal
>priests, how common in the stories of Trickster are Illusions? The Pupeteers
>are famous for it of course. Once we have agreement on how common & in what
>way Illusion magic exists in Glorantha the game mechanics become easy to
>adjust.
For starters, there is a huge difference between Eurmal in Orlanthi Society and Eurmal as master of the Illusion Rune, IMO. Eurmal in Orlanthi Society is _not_ concerned with casting phantasmal force, but to make _trouble_ by whatever means he can. If that means stealing someone's wallet and planting it in an adventurer's knapsack so be it.
Eurmal the Holder of the Illusion Rune is IMO a God Learner Cult. Its largest temple lay within the Archduchy of Slontos. What I suspect happened was that the God Learners knew of the Illusion Rune but did not know of a God for it to go with. So they selected a barbarian cult whom even the barbarians didn't want and experimented with it, researching the powers of deception. Most of the Illusion spells (Rune and Sorcery) in the RQIII Rulebook comes from here. I don't think it was known by the Malkioni before then as the concept of Illusion is antithetical to the aim of the truth.
The Puppeteer Troupe are concerned with phantasmal images. However, they are not Eurmali but Donandar cultists (look at their GoG runespells if you don't believe me). I suspect they are from the Holy Country rather than being native Orlanthi Donandari (cf Nick Eden's writeup).
The lunars are problematical. I am inclined to give the Illusions to the cult of Irripi Ontor and other Glamour Cults. This does sit somewhat uneasily with their stellar worship and I don't know how they integrate it. This will have to wait until 'Masks of the Goddess' is published, I suppose.
The Kralori would seem to be familiar with the concept of Illusions. I suspect they do not work with the creation of illusions but hold that all the World is but an Illusion and the Kralori seek to see beyond it to find the Ultimate Truth in things. Thus a mystic may foor example safely ignore your metal swordthrusts.
Dunno for the Fonritans but the Doraddi would have the Bolongo Tricksters who occupy a similar position as the Orlanthi Eurmali.
Stuart McDonald:
> Anyway, about all this fuss over Illusion spells and Tricksters; I don't
>have access to any of my sources, but isn't there a 3 point(?) Trickster spell
>which allows any combination of 12 points of the Divine illusion spells?
Hallucination. It only affects the caster. An ideal spell for the cult of Eurmal Lightbringer.
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