> The early second age Seshnegi Philosophy was Atomism. I think
> these dudes were so materialistic that they actually thought
> Solace was a physical place on Earth and expended their energies
> in trying to find it (ie Teleportation, Outer Atomist explorers
> etc).
That's the Colonials who had remained untouched by the Gbaji wars (except perhaps for some volunteers). What you say may be true for the Jrusteli, I think, but not necessarily in the homeland.
According to the USCCG history of Malkionism, Gerlant and Talor made a show of being buddies in the face of the overpowering might of the Dark Empire in the 3rd Ecclesiastical Council. In 518 Nralar the Old took over for more than a century, and (at least in the published material) there is no evidence that he was a God Learner sympathizer.
The materialists would have been imitators of the Arolanit Brithini, but I don't think that the Brithini were very popular at the end of the Gbaji wars.
Me>> The eponym of Hrestoli really comes into play in Loskalm >>> after they kicked out the God Learners and sought to return to >>> the pious faith that existed after Hrestol's Martyrdom (of which >>> Siglat's Dream was the most recent and effective). >>I don't think so. IMO already the people of Akem thought of themselves>>as Hrestoli, to distinguish themselves from the Malkioni who still followed >>Froalar's way, and the Brithini.
> The 'Malkioni who still followed Froalar's way' were full blown Pagans
> in the eyes of the Malkioni in Fronela and would have been described as
> such. They would have only used Hrestoli when contrasting themselves
> with the Old Malkioni (who joined Malkion in his exile) and not the
> Brithini.
Froalar, not Ylream. Froalar was the king who led the Seshnegi through the last years of Darkness, happily married to Xemela. The forced marriage to Seshna Likita at the Dawn can't have lasted for long, IMO, and couldn't redefine several decades of bleak Malkionism before the Dawn. But yes, these would have been materialists.
>>In some obscure sources Gerlant and Talor are even named sons of Arkat.
> Oh for Goodness sake! I'm talking about the Carmanian PoV not the
> attitude of addled Ralian 'Who was Arkat' Mystics. Talor is their
> man, the one who _saved_ them from the Lie. Arkat was a monster
> whom Talor set free to ravage the Bright Empire in Ralios.
Nah. Arkat was a great hero who found balance between light and dark, though only through excesses and destruction..
>>Still they might have known post-God Learner Fronela during the reign >>of Nadar the Avenger when they showed up at Eastpoint.
> And what does this have to do about what the Carmanians know about
> Ralios or Seshnela? The Carmanians know about Fronela. They
> extrapolate what they know about Fronela to the Rest of the West.
> They do not have detailed knowlege about the Rokari or even know
> if the Castle Coast are not part of the Seshnegi Kingdom.
Accurate for Carmania before the Thaw opened the Janube from Loskalm to Riverjoin, and past Charg to the Sweet Sea. Carmanian sailors were the first to contact the reopened West, and to meet sailors from Nolos and Pasos in Sog City.
>>They might still remember the linealist/idealist schisma of Seshnela,
> Why? This was a Seshnegi issue and not particularly relevant to Fronela.
Was! <g> Seriously, first Age Akem before Varganthar was quite close to Seshnela politically and economically, and was the best place for nobles of either side to sit out adverse times. Just like Duke Raus brought some awareness of the finer points of Lunar poilitics to the common awareness of Pavis, these other exiles will have told their tales of woe to whoever did not want to hear it.
> In particular it seemed to dwell on who rules what. The Fronelas seemed
> to have escaped debates about inheitance to play Credo! instead with
> Renouncers, Venerators, Progessional etc (details from 'A History of
> Fronelan Malkionism' in Codex #2)
Thanks to remind me of that. Still, the Linealist/Idealist schism was political in nature as well.
> Still sticking up for the Castle Coasters.
Yeah, they're an obscure bunch.
> How would contact with
> Rokari in Malkonwal confer the Carmanians with detailed knowlege of
> Ye Olde Seshnelan Chivalry?
By sharing the curses upon them with captive knights in honourable prison, middle crusader/muslim style. Richard's guys were fed up with all enemies of Seshnela, be it Nolos, Castle Coast, Holut, or Daran. With Heortland barbarians and Aeolians even more so, of course.
> And onto the Issue of True Mostali:
> Poor Joerg. The Last Orlanthi has being seriously transfigured by the
> evil cultural missions of the reaching moon megacorp
I knew I should have protested loudly when Nick posted that Lunar propaganda _and simultaneously the Bat ate my messenger spirits_, even belatedly.
However, I still wonder how I earned the title of Last Orlanthi. Can you clarify that, Peter?
> and has now
> taking to becoming a Nidan Conclave Apologist/Polemicist?
Why do _you_ flee into polemics, Peter?
> Reread the
> Broken Coucil Guidebook and RQ adventures #5 to counter the Nidan
> propaganda in DW#24 and Elder Secrets.
Even Broken Council and RQA 5 tell me that a True Mostali obsessed with his private repair project of the World Machine needn't (and likely won't) take a seat in a council. So why should I forget the _neutral_ information from ES, or the _objective_ history from DW 24?
> To confute your charges of Caste Crime: What did the Mostali fight with
> _before_ they made the Iron Crucible? To whit before Death came and
> Iron was invented, we are told that in DW24 'The Mostali fought in many
> early battles, marching purposefully in the wake of Kargan Tor, War God
> of the Celestial Court.'
They performed feats of workmanship and inventiveness, Kargan Tor being the Celestial Court god of contests and conflicts. Their tendency to treat conflicts as sportive contests caused great losses to the cause of the World Machine before the Iron Crucible was constructed.
> Merely assuming that a Modern Clay Dwarf in
> a Caste behaves exactly as the Original True Mostali would have done
> is misguided, methinks.
True, a True Mostali would be more flexible in some ways, but also more dedicated to the machine as it was - i.e. no need of a council when Mostal still made the decisions.
>>I agree that most True Mostali would be revered leaders, foremen or >>masters. But would they necessarily lead in aspects not pertaining >>to their own caste's interests and duties? I don't think so.
> Why this caste business for True Mostali? They were around before
> the Clay Dwarves were made to serve as substitutes. Don't you think
> they would know what is acceptable behaviour for them?
Within the limits of their purpose within the machine. True Mostali may be less restricted than their lesser clay brothers (or sisters?), but that may mean tat the clay ones are specialized even within their castes (like the dino controller from the ES cameo).
> They are not
> interested in caste's interests and duties, They are interested in
> repairing the Machine.
After their best knowledge, which is hardwired by their caste, or as you put it more poetically:
> The Container from whence they came
And which defined their function within the World Machine.
> only
> biases their perception of What Needs to Be Done.
And that means that they may not be interested in ruling clay dwarfs in matters outside of their perception.
End of Glorantha Digest V2 #266
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
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