> Were the Second Age Seshnegi "Gerlanti"?
I think so, in essence, though I'm not sure they'd have used the term: "We're *Malkioni*, Goddamnit, not Gerlanti!" In my Castle Coast sect writeup (available by anonymous FTP from <ftp.csua.berkeley.edu> in pub/runequest/malkioni) you'll find they're particularly keen on Saint Gerlant:
"Sir Gerlant Flamesword, Sainted King of Seshnela, son and liege lord of Sir Arkat the Black, ordered the great Crusade Against Chaos that overthrew the evil King of Tanisor in his day. His descendents were the Flame Kings, who ruled the glorious Middle Sea Empire in the Second Age before they placed their trust in Sorcery and were overthrown. As a Saint, Gerlant gives his blessing to all wars fought against corrupt and usurping monarchs of Tanisor, and is remembered for his perfect Chivalry."
(Me, I'm particularly proud of that last bit, about the undertakings he gives his blessing to. A better example of redefining the world through HeroQuesting you couldn't hope to find).
> Froalar was the king who led the Seshnegi through the last years of
> Darkness, happily married to Xemela. The forced marriage to Seshna
> Likita at the Dawn can't have lasted for long, IMO, and couldn't
> redefine several decades of bleak Malkionism before the Dawn.
I think your 'O' is wrong here: the "forced" (eh?) marriage founded a dynasty of Serpent Kings, whose people worshipped the Goddess Seshna as mother and founder of the royal line. Some of the kings were weird serpentine mutations (Prince Ylream had snake-tails for legs, and rode a dragon-like steed). King Froalar was reborn after his death in the form of a temple serpent with the head of a King, was worshipped, and (I believe) can still be found to this day if you penetrate his sealed temple cum tomb complex on some ruined island of Old Seshnela. Not that you'd want to meet him...
Generally, on Loren's draft Carmanian writeup, I'd side with Peter against Joerg. I think the world becomes a more interesting place if people start off knowing less about it. It's easier and more fun to introduce new players and new parts of the world if you don't have to describe and define an all-encompassing worldview first. It also feels truer to the "ancient" paradigm of Glorantha: look how much detailed knowledge your average ancient-worlder had of his distant neighbours' beliefs, and *then* factor in the Syndics Ban and close to a thousand years of separate history.
Put it another way: how much do mainstream Rokari and Hrestoli know about the Carmanians, eh? Arguing from the distant travels of an unrepresentative segment of the populace (the handful of Carmanian knights who may have met Rokari knights in the Kingdom of Malkonwal; the arguable handful of Carmanian sailors who may have penetrated beyond Arrolia to Sog City in the last dozen years or so) doesn't impress me. I'm sure we all agree that, living in the same world, it's possible these encounters may have taken place -- that's what makes it a single campaign setting. But basic Carmanian knowledge of foreign, "God-Learnt" Malkionism should come under a blanket banner: leave it for players to discover the flavour and texture of individual sects.
I think this is a General Gloranthan Truth, not just applicable to Carmanians. I think normal characters should be partial, prejudiced and ignorant. I don't want my Carmanian viziers to be able to bone up on the fine points of Rokari doctrine from guidebooks prior to an encounter: I want them to experience life for themselves, not "know it all already" from general cultural "willingness to learn". The only folk who go out of their way to assimilate other peoples' points of view were the Vadeli and the God Learners, AFAIK.
Let's surprise our players and keep them on their toes! Don't give them the world on a plate: make them work for it! Then stick notes in your scenarios so you can prompt PCs how they ought to feel when they meet weird foreigners with their peculiar and disgusting customs.
(a blast from the past, from v02.n253)
Generally, this read like a very "Western" sect to me. I'd have expected more divergence from the mainstream Western God-Learnt religion. The paragraph beginning "Love the Truth" is excellent, though the emphatic anti-Orlanthi attitude is more Lunar than Carmanian, IMHO.
> [Tapping? Do Carmanians allow Tapping? I'd be inclined to say that
> only the Magi may learn Tap, and it may only be used on foreigners
> and enemies.]
That sounds right. Most of the arguments about Tapping read like God Learners faffing about with logic to me; the Carmanians are well out of this one.
On the Attitudes to Other Sects, I'd clip most of the Western ones (other than a quick diatribe against God Learnerism), and replace them with attitudes to Dara Happans, Pelorians, Arrolians, Barbarians, Char-Un... the people they really meet.
Try these for size:
LUNARS: The Red Moon embodies the Balance between Light and Darkness as she moves both visibly and invisibly through her Seven Phases. Her Point of Balance is as dangerous and holy as the Sword Bridge of old, and we may attain Paradise by walking along it, always perceiving the Truth of our place and our actions. There are mystics and visionaries in the Empire who move blindly and instinctively to achieve their higher fate, but embracing such insanity has never been the Carmanian Way: we know where we stand, we comprehend the reasons for our actions, and we move consciously towards our ultimate aims. Thus we can perceive the True Lunar Faith beneath the multitudinous masks and illusions of the Red Goddess more swiftly and surely than her other followers, and act decisively and with purpose to further the Lunar Way.
DARA HAPPANS: The Empire of the Sun turned its back on the Darkness and was overthrown by enemies it could not perceive, let alone confront. The Dara Happan way was ever too gentle, too soft and decadent: they lacked the edge of steel, the grit and determination which led us to victory over them. Their civilisation and its luxuries are admirable, but not enviable: our iron is stronger than their gold. Better a harsh land that breeds heroes, than a soft land breeding slaves.
PELORIANS: The Land of Women was dominated by our ancestors ever since the Ten Thousand liberated them from the Spolite Gloom. These are a slothful people, who had mysteries but no understanding, art and poetry but no aptitude for decisive force and action. They are content in their inferior status, as we could never be.
BARBARIANS: The Enemies of Civilisation. The Golden Empire of Carmania was conquered by barbarous Bull People when it lapsed into Dara Happan decadence, and theirs was the savage force that wrongly opposed the Red Moon Goddess at her advent. The Barbarians still oppose the armies of Truth and Light, and so we make their homelands the Abode of War. Whether near at hand in Vangstal and Brolia, or in far-distant Dragon Pass, they are the enemies of the Lunar Way, and must be brought to heel.
HORSE NOMADS: Since the Moonrise, we have lived as neighbours to the unruly and brutal Char-Un of Erigia, but our hazars have often taught them the error of their ways. In the Dark of the Moon, we Carmanians were the last true followers of the Magnificent Shah, afterwards recognised as Moonson: at Kitor we swept the horse nomads aside like an avalanche, then reforged the Empire from the ruin they had made of it. Our brass-scaled cataphracts with their scimitars of steel and will of iron can defeat ten times their number of craven, skulking Pentans: they only learn to fight when they enlist in civilised Lunar regiments, under Carmanian cavalry officers.
ARROLIANS: Cowards and traitors who fled from the Horse Nomads to the distant West. Pah! Whatever they may claim, they are no true kin of ours.
WESTERNERS: They have abused, tormented and corrupted True Religion into a mishmash of sorcery and blasphemy. Do not listen to the lies of the infidel! Until their eyes can be opened, they are lost to the Good God, dupes of the Deceiver!
(Those are off the cuff descriptions, amenable to criticism. I knocked them off for this post, and haven't invested much time and effort in perfecting them).
> the _objective_ [Mostali] history from DW 24?
That was by the man who wrote the objectively-titled article "Why I Dislike Mostali", wasn't it? :-)
End of Glorantha Digest V2 #267
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
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