Martin C>> I have to agree with Peter M. (that's twice now) about
>> Carmanian attitudes toward Talor. No way is he Arkat's lieutenant.
>He grew out of that role, if he ever occupied it, that's for sure. Does
>Harmast Barefoot figure anywhere in Talor's legend,
Well, I think so. I have written in a previous digest that Talor was stuck in the underworld after closing the Gate of Banir and Harmast rescued him. Talor was only met for Harmast while on the Westfaring phase of the LBQ (they got lost after being sidetracked at Castle Kartolin). All IMO.
>And: When did Harmast's second expedition contact Talor? The Fronelan
>Timeline in Codex 2 by Mark Sabalauskas says
>"c.420 Sir Talor joins with heroes from other lands. Great oaths are
>sworn against the Gbaji cult."
Harmast's second LBQ would have been about 440+ ST when Arkat renounced Humakt and joined Zorak Zoran. I would place the meeting mentioned above in 417 or 418 before Arkat attempts to storm Kartolin.
Nick Brooke:
Me>> Troll Gods says that the Arkati fought against the Outer Atomic Me>> Explorers who were then followed by the God Learners.
>I think both of these fights are different in nature to the mundane warfare
>between the Stygian Empire and the Kingdom of Seshnela (and, later, the
>crusading Middle Sea Empire).
But magical fights are more often than not paralleled in Mundane Fights. The War in Heaven occured because the Exarchs were trying to destroy the FDR, frex. Ditto for the Battle in the Sky that destroyed the Hyaloring Power in Saird and Dara Happa.
Joerg Baumgartner (again):
> [Atomism]
>I think that the OAEs were an early God Learner organisation, similar to
>the Nochet-based guys who raided the cult of Drolgard around 572 ST.
Replace 'God Learner' with 'God-Learner like' and I would agree with this statement. I think that these cults were considered part of the God Learner Movement much later on. But at the time they were independant cults seeking to accomodate the new truths that had been discovered by the Chaos Wars. But when the God Learners became all powerful, they assimilated the Nochet guys and the OAE as well as the Arkati.
[What happened to Talor]
Me>> Lords of Terror does says that Talor was killed in the storming of
>> the City of Wonders.
>So what? Afterwards he led his victorious survivors back to Fronela.
>Heroes killed in action aren't yet out of the game...
Did he? LoT also says that Arkat made a tomb for Talor after the battle and buried him there. The SC Guidebook is mere propogandra at this point. Reread the disclaimer.
Me>> And even if LoT were wrong, how do you
>> reconcile this with the fact that you think the Carmanians view him
>> as Arkat's lieutenant?
>I didn't say that the Carmanians viewed him that way, at least not
>after he parted company and returned to Fronela.
*sigh*
Then what the hell were we arguing about then? I had said I do not believe the modern day _Carmanians_ saw Talor as Arkat's Lieutenant. Praytell, what was _your_ objection to this statement?
Me>> I don't think the Atomists actually believed they had to live
>> forever and follow strict caste Guidelines like the Brithini.
>> My guess is that they felt they would be reincarnated if they
>> lived a pure enough life (swiping some dogma from the Galvosti
>> Writeup). When they reached Solace, the last pure place on Earth
>> they would live forever.
>Back to the Kingdom of Logic? The paradise in the Far West?
To wherever Malkion had Disappeared to. Think of the Promised Land. They don't have a clue where the hell it is but they are trying to find out.
[Second Age definitions of Hrestoli]
Me>> I thought this [Froalar's way/Late Old Malkioni] largely
>> vanished (save for God Forgot and other dreary places) when the
>> Serpent Kings took over.
>What do you think the people of Akem were before Hrestol's revelation
>reached them? And I don't know how universally accepted Hrestol's way
>was outside of Seshnela - those who did not accept it will have remained
>this way.
Huh? _When_ and _where_ was Hrestol martyred in your version of Glorantha? I thought he was martyred in Sog City (in Fronela) thus converting any Malkioni Exiles there to his relevations. This turned Fronela into a Stronghold of Malkionism whilst the Serpent Kings were reveling in their paganry. I think the True Hrestol way came from Fronela after the Serpent Kings had died out.
The main mass of 'Old Malkioni' who had not heard of Hrestol during the first age were the Sedalpists on the shores of Pamaltela. A proto- would have described himself as Hrestoli compared against these folks _if_ they were aware that these folk existed. However these people latter recieved the Hrestoli Revelations from the God Learners so at the time of the God Learner intervention, there were damn few Old Malkioni/ Froalar's way dudes anywhere in the world.
Me>> Remember the True Hrestoli Way condemned
>> the Serpent Kings as pagans and we have independant confirmation
>> of this with the RQ Companion's story that the Seshnegi imported
>> several Gods to Hrelar Amali.
>According to Broken Council Guidebook, they burned it rather than
>to import new deities...
I would date this to the Silver Empire with its radical new wave of Monotheism.
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