Saedalpists and Holidays in Hell

From: Peter Metcalfe <P.Metcalfe_at_student.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:50:16 +1300


Martin Crim:

Me>>The main mass of 'Old Malkioni' who had not heard of Hrestol during the
>>first age were the Sedalpists on the shores of Pamaltela.

>That's _proto-Sedalpists_, if such a term is allowable, and there's no
>evidence there were any in Pamaltela at the time.

I'll grant you the point about 'Sedalpists' as I think it's a Fonritan Word. As for the evidence of their presense in Pamaltela during the First Age, there is no written evidence agreed. But Sandy has stated on this digest that he believes the se^H^H proto-sedalpists were on the shores of Pamaltela before the Dawn (something about after the Storm Invasion, which followed the Troll invasion). I think these people were Malkioni Slaves of the Vadeli Empire who manage to flee Doomed Vadelela before it sank like a stone. OTOH Sandy thinks they might be a very old phoenician-like colony. It appears the Elder Secrets passage has been Gregged or Sandied.

>Thus, there were no Sedalpists until the Third Age. What their ancestors
>believed is, in a word, obscure. IMHO, the Malkioni first came to Pamaltela
>in the late First Age as refugees from Gbaji and Arkat. They would have
>been, therefore, Hrestoli.

I think the Proto-sedalpists would have become Hrestoli about this time through the interaction with the very refugees you mention.

Sandy Petersen:


DC>>>To the Dara Happans, a man who has committed vicious and evil

>>>criminal acts at some point in his life really has very little hope
>>>of redemption,

Me>>This is very bleak. What ever happened to the concept of
>>extirpation or purification of the bad deed? And Yelm got tossed
>>into the Deepest Pits and yet he got out.
 

> The Dara Happan culture does not support such a concept.

Well there is the example of an army that slew a Carmanian Army in Darsen and remained behind to purify itself (something about violating a sacred treaty) during the Carmanian March. But then we appear to be arguing over criminal acts as such.

>Repentence is only possible in the slightest degree. When a man
>foully blunders, his soul is forfeit, and that's all there is to it.

It is my belief that the Dara Happans and the Lunars do not distinguish between doing bad things and having bad things happening to you (like being foully murdered). Each incurs a Dark Stigma so to speak. IMO, one should be able to cleanse oneself of this dark deed. Think of ritual cleanness. The criminal is unlikely to purify himself before death so he ends up in Hell, whereas the Pure Man thus polluted will do so.

>Lodril never rose back to the ranks of the sky. The Dara Happan
>heroes are all men who _never_ failed, despite terrible trials and
>temptations -- from Yelmalio (or your favorite name for this god) to
>Yelm to Lightfore to Dayzatar.

Lodril never rises because he likes it where he is. Big difference methinks. And Avivath was a common criminal before he became an avatar of Antirius.

> Yelm was tossed into the Deepest Pits, but he was
>guiltless. More to the point, he was able to leave the pits _only_
>by remaining pure and stainless to his ideals. If he had weakened,
>shown fear, compromised with the dark and the chaos, then he would
>never have returned. But his selfless dedication to what he knew was
>right, despite all odds, forced his destroyers to seek forgiveness
>after which he led them to life once more.

But the act of his foul murder tossed him into the Darkest Pits of Hell, according to the Dara Happans IMO. He was only able to struggle back into life through maintaining his ritual purity after death. A Good Man will eventually rise out of his pitiful state whereas the Bad Man like Danfive Xaron will probably remain there for a long long time.

End of Glorantha Digest V2 #273


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