>>A possible role is that of Herald and Eye of Orlanth. In KoS Yinkin is
>>the secret perception of Orlanth - the bringer of portents, visions and
>>secrets. Thus Y could also be the messenger between Orlanth and his
>>priests.
>Issaries holds that role (especially in East Ralios, where he has no real
>trade aspect).
And so does Mastakos, Odyala, Humakt, Urox, Heler and Voriof, and lesser beings like the Storm Crow and various Wind Spirits. I don't think Orlanth uses only one messenger for sending the portents and omens he wishes to be known. All the gods aid Orlanth in their fashion, and some fashions overlap.
Just because it is Urox' sworn duty to kill chaos, Humakt and Orlanth just don't stand idle watching him fight. Odayla is the hunter of the pantheon, and so Yinkin can't hunt? Voriof guards the cloud-sheep, and thus everybody else is incapable to do that? Elmal rides his horses, and so the other gods must walk or use other means of transportation.
C'mon, David, enough of this functionalistic labelling. One role can be held by several gods.
Seriously though, i agree with you - Y is not a messenger in the 'hermetic' sense that Issaries is. He is more a bringer of secret knowledge, gained through that perception of his.
Furthermore, to tie in with the divination thing - Find Enemy/ Cat's Warning should be one of Yinkin's spells (and therefore Orlanth's), or at least not a COMMON spell. I agree with Catseye belonging to Yinkin, even if Yelmalio later stole it (there's a Yinkin heroquest here - get the eyes back of prevent Yinkin from losing them).
The other David Hall adoes about:
>Yinkini:
I said:
>>it might also be the other way around - orlanthi devolving into hsunchen?
>Hmm... so you think the myths are new ones made up for a reason? What
>reason? What external influence is leading to the need for new cat myths
>and new hsunchen customs and practices? Are the forests returning? Are the
>crops failing?
If society is smashed from without, the 'civilised' ways are broken and people return to the old ways of gors and gallt, where Odayla and Yinkin reign. Which happened after the Dragonkill. Yinkin intervened and saved a few small groups of people via his stealth. This group got bonded to Yinkin through this and that's the origin of my Yinkiri. Not hsunchen per se, but pretty close.
>In Orlanthi society there is increasingly less need for a link to nature,
>to man's hidden perceptions, to the beast within. Orlanthi don't need to
>hunt and gather any more - they don't need the Old Way to survive. They
>increasingly have farming, crafting, cities, trade, roads, laws, and
>institutions. They're evolving into a more "civilised" and modern society.
>
Nonsense. They still need the old ways, but now they don't have to rely solely on hunting and gathering. Even hsunchen have crafting, cities (of a sort anyway, more like religious centres), trade (albeit limited), laws and institutions.
>So, Yinkins myths are IMO a throwback to the Old Way. Sort of like a
>human's appendix: it used to have a big function but now it's not so
>relevant.
Generally i agree with this, but in some cases, due to force majeur, the Really Old Ways need to be dusted off and taken into service again.
>>A possible role [for Yinkin] is that of Herald and Eye of Orlanth.
>Yes, but what role does this give to a worshipper? How do they *eat*? All
>I can see a Yinkin worshipper doing is turning up to ceremonies and taking
>Yinkin's place in a few myths (and any Orlanthi can do that). Outside of
>holy days they would have to worship a different aspect of Orlanth in
>order to survive day to day.
Worshippers of Yinkin are probably hunters. They are also scouts, for which they are rewarded. You have a problem with troll raiders? Send a Yinking scout to find out what they are up to.
>All of the other gods in Orlanth's pantheon have a defined role which puts
>food in their bellies. Yinkin doesn't unless he's a hunting god.
First, i don't think gods need food in that way. If you are talking about worshippers, you make a mistake if you think they worship only a specific role and nothing else. People get fed either by producing their own food or get it as payment for services rendered. Gods don't need to be fed. Those who worship Yinkin don't do it for food. How do worshippers of Mastakos, Urox, Heler and HUmakt get their food?
Second, what are the defined roles of all the other gods which puts food in their bellies?
Third, just because a god has a certain role it doesn't mean he can't have other roles. Yinkin can be Hunter, Scout, Perceiver as well as Dandelion Dancer.
Does this myopic functionalism of you both come with the name?
FIRST MAJOR FOOT-IN-MOUTH ON THE DIGEST FOR 1996:
I asked:
>>Has anyone written a Yinkin write-up?
and David replies:
>But, the point is that Yinkin is a sub-cult of Odayla and Orlanth. There
>is no cult of Yinkin. HIS CURRENT ROLE DOESN'T WARRANT ONE [my emph].
Does this mean i have to erase Mastakos from my copy of GoG, as i presume you have done, as his current role doesn't warrant one? Potential write-ups of other gods and goddesses we would have to erase would include Voria, Grain Goddesses, Barntar, Vinga, Spare Grain, Garzeen Middleman, Orlanth Rex, various Trickster aspects, all Hero cults, et cetera.
David, this was one of the silliest replies i have ever read. Every god or spirit that has myths and can provide magic are worthy of writing up.
Apologies if i sounded too vitriolic.
End of Glorantha Digest V2 #302
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