David Hall:
>>There is a pattern of evolution in Glorantha from primitive
>>societies to more civilised societies.
> Pamaltelan savannah, in which the tendency is to drop
>civilization in favor of the nomad way.
You're arguing from an example of one here. The Agimori were never part of Artmal's Empire and the Kresh were never urbanized AFAIK.
> Gloranthan history in general, in which the most advanced
>and sophisticated societies are almost all past phenomena. Compare
>the Empire of Nysalor to the modern-day Lunars -- Nysalor's empire
>was at least as advanced. And the second-age empires were
>unanimously far more cultured than those in the late third-age.
This seems to me to be falling into the same kind of error that labelled the early middle ages Dark.
As for Nysalor's Empire being at least as advanced, I dispute this. I think the Lunar Empire is more advanced than the Bright Empire in terms of religious/magical awareness having built upon many of the things that Nysalor taught. A RW analogy would be a modern day computer as compared to Babbages Analytical Engine. In terms of technology and political organization I think the Lunars are far ahead. This is because the Bliss of Nysalor's Empire rested upon the enlightenment of its rulers rather than any political organisation or technological adavnce. All this however ultimately turned sour as the leaders fell into the Dark Side.
The 'more cultured' second age empires. I find this difficult to digest. I don't accept brute magcial prowess (Tanian's victory) as a sign of culture anymore than I can call a 1950's gas-guzzling cadillac the height of motor car technology or a Ptolemiac sixteener a pinnacle of Hellenistic Martime Technology.
DARK EMPIRE: The place was ruled by Trolls! The highest mark an average troll has attained culture-wise is to eat somebody's legs off with a knife and fork instead of using his fingers.
EASTERN SEAS: Let me see. All threads of Theya's Net lead to the Jeweled Isle of Mokato. While they may have lead lives of unparalled sophistication before the Renunciation, I doubt that many of the other isles enjoyed this prosperity. One of the reasons, methinks, for the inital success and survival of Valkaro's mission.
ELF EMPIRE: From what I hear, the place was ruled by special plants of the House of Errinoru which gave off special scents that compelled most other aldryami to obey any member of the House of Errinoru. Does not qualify as culture in my book.
EWF: Ruled by the Dragons to whom the niceties of human culture were immaterial.
GOD LEARNER SESHNELA: If we are taking the chivalry of the Castle Coasters as an example of what the God Learners were like (something which I don't believe) then I should point out this only applied in the Courts and amongst the God Learners themselves and not the people who the God learners fought (Vralos Elves, Waertagi, Safelster etc). Nor am I persuaded that the lot of the God Learner farmer was much changed (ie they were mostly serfs rather than free farmers/Kulaks).
KRALORELA: The current adminstration of kralorela is largely unchanged from days of the False Dragons' Ring save for the reinstitution of the Civil Service, a hefty amount of window dressing and the fictitious backdating of the FDR reforms to Yanoor's Saintly reign IMO.
SIX LEGGED EMPIRE: The majority of inhabitants dwelt in Latifundium. The Arbennan Kingdom is more cultured than the Six Legged Empire.
> Glorantha myth -- most folk agree that things were better
>in the good old days, from the Praxians to the dwarfs to the East
>Islanders.
The key word is myth here. I'm sure some members of the KKK view antebellum Southern USA as a golden age today when the Whites ruled everything and the darkie knew his place. This land of glory was hunted and cast down by the Evil Northerners. Sound Familiar? Just because most folks believe it to be so doesn't make it so. For the Praxians and the East Islers, they may be right, but I doubt that the Kralori, Dara Happans or the Malkioni claims of a Golden Age are similarly valid.
> Is it not likely that Hsunchen have diminished, not because
>they've evolved away from the old ways, but because they've been
>cut back? Or because they've outright joined another culture. A
>Tiger Man leaving his clan to become a true Kralori is not an
>examplar of cultural evolution, but rather demonstrates cultural
>competition and replacement. Just a thought.
Whilst true, one must remember that both the Hsunchen of the Shan-Shan Mountains and Fronela are more sophisticated materially and socially than your average 'primitive' hsunchen found in the Telmori (where lycanthropy acts as a retardant to sophistication) and in Tarien (which is very remote from civilized areas).
This is because the Uncoling and Shan-shan hsunchen have been in longterm contact with the civilized lands of Loskalm and Kralorela. Thus they have developed pastoralism, have more sophisticated craftwork and have a nobility of sorts. Thus the Hsunchen are capable of cultural evolution. Although to what extent they must abandon their hsuncheness to progress further is something I'm unsure about.
The Rathori whom you have said are in the process of doing so, have had one major god stolen by Harrek the beserk and many lore bearers killed by the aforementioned renegade. Thus IMO they are abandoning their Hsunchen ways because it has been severely damaged and in the act of repairing it, they are having to adopt many outside customs which will ultimately dilute their hsunchen heritage.
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