Peter M.
>You're arguing from an example of one here. The Agimori were never
>part of Artmal's Empire and the Kresh were never urbanized AFAIK.
I say:
>Compare the Empire of Nysalor to the modern-day Lunars --
Nysalor's >empire was at least as advanced.
P.M.
>This seems to me to be falling into the same kind of error that
>labelled the early middle ages Dark.
Spare me your cultural darwinism. If you're going to contend that I'm subject to outdated theses, watch your own windows.
>As for Nysalor's Empire being at least as advanced, I dispute
>this.
Well, neither I nor the Lunars concur with you.
>And the second-age empires were unanimously far more cultured than
>those in the late third-age.
>>I don't accept brute magcial prowess (Tanian's victory) as a sign
>>of culture
What do you accept then? The introduction of architectural styles that are still used everywhere their empire's touched? The standardization of coinage and language? The innovation of complex trade networks that benefited the entire planet? The building of cities and the appearance of a true middle class for perhaps the first time in Gloranthan history? The establishment of industry?
The second age was so far beyond modern Glorantha it's hard today to comprehend the gulf that separates the two worlds.
>DARK EMPIRE: The place was ruled by Trolls!
Crude pseudo-racist wit, unworthy of response. As well call humans hairless club-wielding apes.
>EASTERN SEAS: All threads of Theya's Net lead to the Mokato. While
>they may have lead lives of unparalled sophistication, I doubt
that >many of the other isles enjoyed this prosperity.
Then you err. The other islands enjoyed similar, if lesser prosperity.
>ELF EMPIRE: the place was ruled by special plants. Does not
qualify >as culture in my book.
The way they took rule has nothing to do with their cultural sophstication. When they left, the elves mourned for them, and still do. They do not seem to feel they were bamboozled. They enabled the jungle to work as a single unit from Laskal to Dinal, coordinating the elf realms for the first time ever.
>GOD LEARNER SESHNELA: Nor am I persuaded that the lot of the
>God Learner farmer was much changed (ie they were mostly serfs
>rather than free farmers/Kulaks).
Sez who? The God Learners used automatons, mandrakes, homunculi, and other constructs to perform dull everyday tasks.
>KRALORELA: The current adminstration of kralorela is largely
>unchanged from days of the False Dragons' Ring
Evidence that the olden times weren't so crude after all, no?
>SIX LEGGED EMPIRE: The majority of inhabitants dwelt in
>Latifundium. The Arbennan Kingdom is more cultured than the Six
>Legged Empire.
What does the first statement have to do with their kingdom's degree of civilization? Most of the population of New York State live in New York City but that doesn't mean that the rest of the state doesn't count as part of the same governed body. There is no Arbennan Kingdom. The Doraddi are a sophisticated people culturally, like Australian Aborigines, Bushmen, and Dyaks. But surely they don't fit your definition of "advanced".
Sandy P.
End of Glorantha Digest V2 #321
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
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