Saints and False Gods

From: ian (i.) gorlick <"ian>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:39:00 -0500


Carl Fink proposes that Saints be considered as something like boddhisatvas, disembodied entities who have refused to go on to Solace/Nirvana and remain able to intervene in affairs of the material world. I accept this as a possible model.

This still leaves the question: How do you distinguish between a Saint and a False God?

At the moment, especially with Sandy's rules for Saint's blessings, I don't think you really can tell the two apart. I am sure that this must be a matter of great concern for Malkioni purists.

I have been thinking about this for a long time. At first, I was totally opposed to the entire idea of saints being venerated and being able to do anything in Glorantha, it seemed entirely contrary to the entire idea of Malkionism and the Invisible God. However my position has moderated over time. I would now consider a spectrum of belief among different factions of the Malkioni.

The Stygians, Aeolians, and Henotheists could easily handle the Saints being venerated and granting miracles. After all, they are willing to worship False Gods (or Lesser Gods, as I guess they call them) so why would they worry that Saints and Gods get a bit blurred together.

The most conservative factions of the Malkioni would, IMO, reject the veneration of saints outright. I'll need some help from other Gloranthan scholars to identify which sects this might be, or perhaps this extreme viewpoint is already extinct having been unable to compete with more accessible and more magically blessed factions.

Slightly less conservative factions might allow that saints are worthy subjects for contemplation/meditation as role-models of righteous behaviour, but would ban the veneration of them and the receipt of blessings from them as being paganism.

Moderate Malkioni ( I would propose the Loskalmi and Rokari in this context ) would allow the veneration of saints but only if the blessings received were in some way qualitatively different from the magic of false gods.

What would qualify as a qualitatively different blessing? I would like to propose that the saints offer only blessings of the heart and soul, they can not affect the physical or magical worlds except through the actions of their devotees. Allow me to offer some examples.

Saint Hrestol would offer the blessing of Martyrdom. If invoked this blessing allows the recipient to endure any pain, torture, terror, or other stress without straying from the true faith in the IG. Usually invoked by those facing martyrdom for their beliefs. Saint Hrestol bolsters their faith so that they can achieve Solace.

Saint Talor would offer the blessing of Laughter. Those inspired by this saint will never lose heart in the face of their enemy. The sound of their laughter will raise the morale of any on their side who hear it. They will always successfully resist magic such as Demoralize, Fear, or Panic.

Saint Xemela would bless her devotees with Soothing. This allows the devotees to reassure those suffering from illness or wounds and to soothe their pain even if the condition can not be cured.

In all cases, the blessing does not do anything that affects the external universe, all the miracles are subjective. Those who have faith will know that a miracle has occurred; those without faith will not see anything happen. This accords better with my opinion of what is appropriate to the IG.

I could probably be talked into some more powerful blessings, but the important point is that they don't do anything directly observable or provable. Perhaps someone invoking a saint might receive a bonus on their skill % for an appropriate task. They won't be able to do anything they couldn't normally do with their own skill, but they could be "inspired" to achieve a better or more reliable result than normal.

Is anybody else out there worried about the Malkioni backsliding into paganism? or should I stop wasting bandwidth?


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